Chief James Floyd, Interview

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program

“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Chief James Floyd
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: March 16, 2021
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: [00:00:02] This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is March 16, 2021. And I am at my home in Tulsa, Oklahoma interviewing Muscogee citizen and former Chief of the Muscogee Creek Nation, Chief James Floyd, who is also at his home in Tulsa. This interview is being performed remotely due to the continuing COVID-19 pandemic. I am performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled “A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19.”
Chief Floyd, I want to start this morning by asking you some questions that pertain to your personal life and background. And so the first thing that I would like to [00:01:00] ask you is what is your tribal town and clan?
JAMES FLOYD: My clan is Wind Clan, and my tribal town is Koweta.
DELLINGER: [00:01:11] And Chief Floyd, where were you born?
FLOYD: I was born in Oklahoma City.
DELLINGER: [00:01:18] And who are your parents? And can you tell me a little bit about your parents?
FLOYD: Sure. My dad was Joe Floyd. Joe’s been passed away. He passed away in 1986, so he’s been gone for a while. He was born near Hanna, and his mom was Nancy Proctor, so she was the
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original allottee [00:01:38] on the Creek side. My mom, her maiden name was Vickery, so it was Margaret Vickery. Her and my dad were married right after the war, 1946, I believe, so they were together about forty years before his passing. Her tribal town is Koweta, as I mentioned before. [00:02:00] And her family is also from McIntosh County. She was raised mostly around Eufaula, so thus me as well. So at a young age we moved from Oklahoma City to Eufaula. My dad opened a business there. And so I grew up in Eufaula.
DELLINGER: [00:02:22] Okay. And can you share just a little bit about what life was like for you growing up in Eufaula?
FLOYD: Well, for me it was busy life. You know, being one of nine children and the fourth of nine, I was right in the middle. So we had a lot of things to do. My dad loved to farm, and so we’re always doing something outside, and I also loved to hunt, so I was outside a lot. So we lived out in the country as well. So ride a school bus to school, and then as soon as [00:03:00] I got home I would generally grab my little .22 and go out and hunt something before dinner. So I was always outside, practically every day, and I just loved being outdoors. And so with me and brothers and friends that lived a quarter mile away or so, half-mile away from us, we were always getting together after school and doing something outside. And so sometimes it was just hunting rabbits and squirrels, but we had something to do every day, stayed very busy.
Later as I got into junior high and high school, I started working. Course, my dad had a business, so I helped him a lot. I think all the family did. So after school it was always go to his place and see if he had anything for me to do. If not, I ended up having several jobs after school, mostly working in the grocery store in Eufaula. And that kept me very busy. And playing sports
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and so [00:04:00] I had a, I think, very filling life through high school, again with nine people in the family, and my cousins, there was eight children their family, and we were together quite a bit. We were fairly large groups. There was always something to do. We were always very close, remain close to this day. And so as cousins they’re almost like brothers and sisters to me. And I think that helped.
It also helped being in McIntosh County around other extended family, got to know a lot of relatives that I just hadn’t really had too much exposure when I was very young, but growing up, being around other cousins and other relatives, it really helped ground me. It helped also to give me a good appreciation of family and family history and the impact that different people [00:05:00] had in that area and within the tribe. So those things helped me a lot growing up and gave me a good appreciation of history that has served me well throughout my life.
DELLINGER: [00:05:16] It sounds like a fantastic childhood, and the fact that you spent your childhood around family and friends, I can understand how that did help develop your ideas about family and community and the importance of those things. Now, did you go to college straight out of high school?
FLOYD: I did. I graduated in 1970, went to Connor State College the first year, but then after that I took a couple years off because I wasn’t sure, several different types of majors that I wanted [00:06:00] to pursue. And my grandfather had worked on the railroad, so when I was taking some classes part-time and not knowing exactly what I was going to do, he directed me toward the railroad. Said you need to get a job and go to work for the railroad. And so for two years of my life I worked on the railroad as a brakeman, a switchman, and that helped me a lot. It
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helped me save money and helped pay for the rest of my education, and so grateful to my grandfather for that opportunity. And it was a good job as well.
DELLINGER: [00:06:35] I know that you, from looking at your biography, you do have multiple degrees that you earned from various institutions of high education. Can you please share a little about these educational accomplishments?
FLOYD: So after I went back to school, I wanted to do something outside, so like an environmental [00:07:00] —some type of environment type of job or engineering type of job. And so I had worked at the County Health Department in Eufaula, and the director of the County Health Department and I were good friends, and he was a good mentor to me as well and advisor to me. And he’s one who suggested, well, have you thought about civil engineering? You can be outside, and you build things and have a impact on what goes on around you.
So I really took to that and got a degree in civil technology from Oklahoma State, which was leading up to a civil engineering degree. And during that time I went to work for the tribe. Originally that was going to be for a summer. And so with the tribe early on I was in the Environmental Services Department, and we did surveys of people’s homes. And you know, I was out and about a lot, and within the Creek Nation visiting families [00:08:00] in the tribe. And I helped write a proposal so that we could get some funding for a program that would help insulate people’s homes and fix some of the water issues that we had identified.
And so there’s Chief Cox, who was the chief at the time, just said, “Well, you now, what are you going to do?” And so I want to go back to school. I ended up working there for two years and got kind of directed toward the healthcare side, which I liked as well. So went back to
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Northeastern State, got my degree, bachelor’s degree in health administration and then went back to work for the tribe, and then immediately started also working on my master’s degree at the University of Oklahoma. And so it was kind of tough balancing. I had gotten married as well. So a home, [00:09:00] a job, and school, and my wife Carol was also working full time as a school teacher, so we had a lot of things going on.
So it was hard to take the classes I need, quickly get through my master’s degree, but later, having then become the director of community services for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, I was involved with, of course, all the healthcare of the tribe, the housing, food distribution, and social services programs, kept me very busy as well. I decided that at a certain time in 1986 I had an opportunity to go to work for the Indian Health Service and didn’t know exactly where that was going to be, but we ended up in Portland, Oregon. So as soon as we moved to Oregon, then I enrolled at Portland State University and, you know, couple years later finished my degree, got a master’s in public [00:10:00] administration and health administration. But I always like to learn, so I was always taking other classes elsewhere, even after my master’s degree. And I think most recently the program I finished was probably with the University of North Carolina in the business program.
But those things I always wanted to be able to get. If I was going to be involved in something, I wanted to know as much as I possibly can. And to be able to bring that knowledge into whatever we were dealing with, whether it was a policy issue or management issue, just helped me feel more comfortable. And so I always try to pursue some type of education throughout my career. So I ended up working twenty-nine years in the federal service, and for that period of time, twenty-two years, I held an appointment with the senior executive service both [00:11:00] within the Indian Health Service and with the Department of Veterans Affairs
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where I was in the Health Services Department. So that helped me as well and broadened my experience, working with veterans and Indian veterans and Indian Health Service. All those things, I think, helped prepare me for later on when I retired and became the principal chief.
DELLINGER: [00:11:26] So just out of curiosity, what were those first years? When you worked for the Muscogee Creek Nation, what year was that when you first went to work for them?
FLOYD: Originally it was 1978, and the tribe didn’t have much in terms of income, very little. We did have the farm. Then we got the hospital to manage as well, and then the clinics under the Indian Health Service and contract. So we begin to expand, but originally, you know, [00:12:00] when I first started working for the tribe, there weren’t very many employees, probably less than two hundred. And I still laugh about that because some of the people that I worked with then are still around, and we talk about one person would come in and sign the paycheck for all of us. And so that’s how small the tribe was when one person could sign all of our paychecks. And that doesn’t happen anymore now, you know, with thousands of employees of the tribe.
But I think that it was exciting to be with the tribe at that time because during that times when they passed the constitution, the council had gone from basically eight to at one point, I think, twenty-seven council members. So we expanded that during that time, and then the growth of the Nation and gaming started in the ’80s as well with [00:13:00] bingo. And so that opened up some ways that the tribe could get revenue and expand programs. And so it was an exciting time. Glad I was there. And it’s an experience that I will carry with me the rest of my life.
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DELLINGER: [00:13:19] Okay. And then you said that you left the Nation, and then you returned as the community services director?
FLOYD: I did. The only time that I left Creek Nation was just going to school full time for a period of time, then came right back to the tribe. And, yes, then became the Director of Community Services.
DELLINGER: [00:13:43] And what year was that?
FLOYD: That was from, I think 1982 when I came back, so I was gone for about two years, little under two years, I think, and then stayed with them through the calendar year [00:14:00] 1986 when I left.
DELLINGER: [00:14:04] And then that’s when you left and went to Portland? FLOYD: Went to work for the Indian Health Service in Portland, yes.
DELLINGER: [00:14:11] Okay. Chief Floyd, I’d like for you to talk just a little bit, if you would, about your time as chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.
FLOYD: Okay. Well, you know, I retired from federal service in 2015. At that time, I was the Medical Center Director of the veterans’ hospital in the VA Eastern Oklahoma Health Care System. So we had clinics in Tulsa and throughout eastern Oklahoma. And so, you know, it’s
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time to retire, and so I left the federal service in 2015 and decided that I would like to [00:15:00] become the principal chief to lend the experience and the knowledge that I had and hopefully improve the Nation and so I was very fortunate to get the support that I did to get elected and become the principal chief. It was a very busy time from 2016 through 2019, also very rewarding time. I really enjoyed just serving people and trying to figure out ways that we could improve our citizen’s lives.
And, you know, again, it was very busy. I think I’ve worked every day, and so I think the challenges that the Nation faced at that time were many. And the tribe had grown much larger than when I had been there before. [00:16:00] But so have the challenges. You know, when you have opportunity and you have some income to be able to do something with it, there’s a lot of ideas that people have, and especially their citizens, of, you know, how the tribe should move forward. The thing that I felt that I would really want to do for the Nation was develop a plan. You know, okay, let’s look at where we’re going. I wouldn’t be around forever, so wanted to make sure that we had something that could be carried on by others after me.
So I think the master site plan that we had for the tribe, especially in the Okmulgee area in dealing with the number of things, the cultural future of the Nation, the administration of the Nation, business opportunities, and the infrastructure that we needed for our employees on the administrative side were growing, [00:17:00] and so there had to be, I felt, a way that we incorporate all of the plans into one big plan so that we have a guide that we can use when we make decisions about, well, here’s where we should be going or here’s where we want to go and where we need to go. So let’s get our decisions lined up with that. That served us well and helped position us for other opportunities that are now becoming available to the Nation. We didn’t have the COVID money at that time, but, you know, now with the COVID money I think
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it presents Chief Hill with a good opportunity to decide how we began to utilize those resources, not only to get through COVID but to position us for a better future.
So I think that those things helped [00:18:00] and gave me a lot of opportunities of principal chief. And I think that it really gave me a good appreciation as well and good participation with the cultural side of the Nation, you know, the ceremonial grounds, our traditional churches, and I really love going to all the social events of the tribe as well. And so, you know, there’s always something to do. I like being close to the people where I can understand the things that they’re facing, what their needs are, what concerns they had, and then go back and figure out a way that we can begin to address that and, you know, make life better for everybody. Those things motivated me a lot, and having some really good people around me really helped. And so that was very fulfilling to me and my family, to be [00:19:00] involved in that.
However, you know, at the end of three, three and a half years or so we really had to take stock as a family and decide what we really wanted to do. We had other things that we would like to pursue, you know, as kind of just private citizens, and how do we go about that? And can we do all these things and still be principal chief? And so knowing that family had kind of got placed on hold during this time I was the principal chief, the family had grown and gone into their own professions, and we wanted, Carol and I wanted to be able to support them and be there to assist them as they need help because we needed to watch after our own family, be with my mom. You know, my mom is ninety-three, and so we’re very blessed that she’s still with us and very healthy. And so we wanted to be able to have time for our own family, and [00:20:00] so there came a point we just decided that, you know, we needed to kind of revise our own personal plans and objectives and refocus, and so it was tough to walk away from being the
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principal chief. It’s a very challenging but very personally rewarding experience, but you also have other needs in your life. And so we made that decision, that it was time to pursue other things, and so now in my life it’s great to be able to be with our family whenever they need us and whenever we want and be there to support them and extended family and give them my thoughts on them looking at careers they want to pursue and just other needs within the family.
I also serve on several organizations’ [00:21:00] boards, so I have a chance to work with the boards and then work with other tribes and kind of advising them on policy matters and planning matters and things that they’re considering. So it kind of gives me another dimension to the (administration of things to serve people that I really didn’t have time for before. I’m still available to assist with the tribe, and we’ll always make sure I have time for that as well. So that’s what life is today.
DELLINGER: [00:21:41] Okay. Well, Chief Floyd, I want to take the opportunity to say mvto for your services to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, and it’s obvious that you talking about your childhood and learning the importance of family, that [00:22:00] that is something, as you have
just shared, that has stuck with you and that family was a big part of your decision to not run for reelection, and, you know, I think that’s fantastic, actually. I wanted to ask you. You just touched briefly on the fact that you are still doing a little bit of work, and you had told me that you are working as an advisor in that type of capacity right now with some folks, and as you mentioned, you do sit on the board of two nonprofits. I was wondering if you could share a little bit more in detail about these things that you’re doing.
FLOYD: Well, the two nonprofits, one is one that I had been involved in when I was in Salt
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Lake City. We lived there [00:23:00] for almost eleven years, and became involved with an organization that raises money and gives scholarships to Native American students throughout North America. And it was great to be involved with the organization at that time as they seemed to just go from a small organization, and it suddenly just, you know, expanded like fivefold. And I was able to serve more people throughout the United States.
And so, you know, and that was rewarding at the time, and as I left being the principal chief was asked by them to come back and be a part of the board. It’s not a huge commitment, but it does help to be able to work with other people who kind of have a single objective, and that is to raise funds, which, 100 percent of the money that they raise goes to scholarships for Native [00:24:00] American students. And to begin to see how college—even if it’s $500 a semester, what a difference that makes in keeping Native American students in college and working toward a degree and then graduating and see them go out, and some of them are now board members as well who’ve gone through that program. So it’s a very rewarding to be able to participate with them.
The second is a group that is also a national organization. It’s been around for over a hundred years, National Park Conversation Association. I wanted to be involved with them because there’s a relationship between them and future of Muscogee (Creek) Nation. And so as kind of an advisory group to the National Park Service [00:25:00] and also working with Indian populations throughout the United States, it really gives you an opportunity to, as an Indian person myself, to be on the board with about seventeen other people or so and to have some influence over the policies of the National Park Service in making sure that there’s a relationship between the Park Service and there’s a healthy relationship between the Park Service and tribes, whether there’s an established tribe or if they’re, in our case with Muscogee (Creek) Nation,
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working with them and with the tribe with the expansion of the Ocmulgee Mounds National Historical Park and being able to look at what there is now, the activities that are going on with the National Park Service, and the resources of the National Park Conservation Association and how they may lend support to the [00:26:00] initiative and also bring the tribe to the table as well. So I think that I can continue my service there and prepare for the future with Muscogee (Creek) Nation being involved with our former homeland with the Ocmulgee Mounds. And there’s a study going on there now that’s looking at expanding the park even more than it has in the past few years.
So it’s, I think, a very exciting opportunity. There’s other tribes that we are getting involved with that are starting their own tribal national parks, and I think that’s exciting to see them take total control over projects. And so just beginning to get involved with them. We have several tribes now that are looking at that. There’s a possibility the Muscogee (Creek) Nation could consider that as well. And I think those are exciting things. So it keeps me busy, but I’m glad to do that as well.
DELLINGER: [00:26:59] Well, yeah, [00:27:00] those are such significant and, as you said, exciting projects that you’re involved in. So mvto again for your service in those projects. Chief Floyd, I’d like for you to share a little bit about your family. You’ve already mentioned your wife Carol, and I know you have two adult children. Can you share a little bit about them?
FLOYD: Sure. You know I have a son, a daughter, and our son Jacob is now teaching at the University of Missouri, and so he stays very busy. We wished he was closer to home, but we understand that, you know, he’s where he needs to be right now. He got his doctorate in English
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and film, teaches film, you know, screen writing, and the basics of films to college students. Our daughter Erin lives [00:28:00] here in Tulsa. And so that’s one of the reason why we moved to Tulsa, is being able to be near her and her husband. He works as an engineer, and so she stays busy just being able to help support him and being with him, as his career continues to develop. And so we’re very pleased with where they are, what they’re doing, and the opportunities that they have in their lives. So we’ll either be cheerleaders or supporters of what they do. We’re glad to be involved with them.
And as I mentioned before, my mom, who lives near Eufaula, is still healthy, and I know that the restrictions because of COVID has really prevented us from doing much. We hope that this year we can begin to get engaged in things. She loves to travel and do things, and so [00:29:00] we want to go get Mom and be with her. Carol’s dad is still alive as well. He’s in his nineties and lives in Oklahoma and is still fairly healthy also. So we want to be able to have time for them. And it kind of brings the point that one thing that we’ve been involved in, we love to do, it kind of brings our love for history and our love for people together, is being able to work on our own family history and our own ancestry as well as to help others in their pursuits in that area. So we spend a lot of time mostly on computers but working to just work on individuals who may have been here 100, 150 [00:30:00] years or so ago and then their descendants and then to identify who they are, what they did and what their lives were like and be able to share that with individuals that we come in contact with. And so that’s been fun to do. I think we’ll always do that.
But you know, and so it’s a, I guess, passion, but it also brings together a lot of things that we really need to know. We get to learn about the history of the tribe and the history of Indian Territory, about the different treaties and who was involved in those and what their lives
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were like and who their families were. And who are their descendants that are around today? So it really gives a sense of place for a lot of people and a sense of security. We talked to some people, and they said, can you help us? You know, I have a little bit of knowledge about this, and so we can spend some time and do some research [00:31:00] for them, and it’s like a gift that we both get to enjoy.
DELLINGER: [00:31:06] Yeah, that’s fantastic. You and Carol have both talked with me about this work that you do, you know, kind of as a hobby, but I think it’s more than just a hobby for the two of you, and it’s obviously a very important part of your lives as well. And I appreciate the research that you do, and I’m sure the folks that you help appreciate it very much as well. And so in sharing about that, I know that there’s some other things that you enjoy doing. I know that you remain very busy, even in your, I’m going to say, supposed retirement. So what else besides the family history research do you enjoy doing in your [00:32:00] free time?
FLOYD: Well, I still love being outdoors, and it’s, to me, very peaceful and very strengthening to me, to be outside. And so whether it’s going hunting or fishing or, you know, going out for walks in the woods, I really love doing that and also look forward to this year, as the grounds begin to open, to go visit some for the grounds and participate. Those things I love to do. Hopefully I can find some time for that as well. But yeah, life can get busy, and we try to keep everything in perspective so that we allocate our time toward things that we want to pursue and then the time that we have available. And so even though, you know, so-called retired, there’s still a lot of time management, [00:33:00] but what you have a capacity to do.
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DELLINGER: [00:33:06] Okay, well, Chief Floyd, thank you so much for sharing these things about yourself. I want to transition the interview now into a conversation that focuses on your personal experiences and thoughts about the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. We are now one year into the COVID-19 pandemic. And do you remember where you were and how you first heard about the coronavirus?
FLOYD: Yes, I do, very much. I think there’s two things that stick out for me, and having the background in public health and a career in healthcare for thirty-plus years, you tend always be interested in those things, or I do. [00:34:00] And so in about December of 2019 beginning to emerge in the news, there’s, you know, this virus that people in China were getting, and so I read a little bit about that, or as much as I could. There wasn’t a lot at the time.
But you know, my thoughts immediately went to my experience being with the Indian Health Service and the public health principles that they had there, and then how we applied those when we had—or were possibly going to experience a pandemic or epidemic, things of that nature. And so my thoughts were, okay, at this day and age, really [00:35:00] nothing is just secluded to one portion of the field. I mean, you’re only one flight away or two flights away from where the people in China were and the people in Oklahoma were. I mean, almost overnight it could be here. And so I began to think, you know, okay, what is it? And what it’s potential of spreading? And it wasn’t until about three months later that the first identifiable cases were in Oklahoma. And as everything began to get locked up, just as we moved back to Tulsa—you know, we were just here. We still really don’t get to visit with our neighbors because everybody is still very careful and inside a lot.
So the world changed. I think the thing that continues to—I continue to look at things
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every day. [00:36:00] I stay up on the counts of the virus, the total cases, the deaths, and the seven-day averages of the state of Oklahoma because it gives you a trend. I was talking to my son the other day, and he was here last summer. I said, well, you remember last July when you were here? I said, “The average for Oklahoma had just hit, you know, 500. We thought that was a lot.” And I said, “Then it shot up to thousands.” He said, “Finally, we’re back down to where we were last July. And it’s been, you know, nine months now for that.” So I hope that the trend continues and that we can begin to get this virus under control. And I hope that the public health system can again focus on how you prepare for pandemics of merging viruses and mutations of the current virus because it’s going to occur. And we [00:37:00] need to be prepared for that. I think we were caught flatfooted on this one, and then it was mismanaged immediately, and we did almost a campaign of denial. And you’ve got to be able to address something when you know it’s affecting your people. And that’s a public health principle, and you study that in college, about past experiences and the experiences of how people got through worldwide epidemics and pandemics that we had of viruses in the past. And we got to learn from then. We got to learn from this one and prepare for the future.
But those two points were just initial identification, and what was this virus? What did it emerge from? And they’re still trying to figure that out. And so again, with my past experience in healthcare trying to figure out how you would administer [00:38:00] programs that could address the virus. And so yeah, in March everything was basically shut down throughout the United States, in particular here because of, you know, we’ve suffered more than any other country in the world. And so that’s been very challenging in a lot of different ways.
DELLINGER: [00:38:28] So Chief Floyd, can you remember any of the initial conversations
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that you may have had with your family and friends about the virus?
FLOYD: Yes, we have some family in the state of Washington, and as you know, one of the first outbreaks of COVID-19, was in the state of Washington, and unfortunate, it’s very near where our family was located. And so [00:39:00] what our conversations were is what are they going to prepare there? And they were telling me this is going to come to Oklahoma. You need to be prepared. And I had been. I’d been online looking at masks and things like that because I knew that we’re going to have to mask up at some point. And it’s just like overnight the availability of masks just disappeared. I mean, they were very cheap and available one night, and the next night being on the computer, they were gone. And so three-months’ wait time, if they would give you a wait time. So the transition happened very quickly.
The other thing that was very telling to me was that I had been involved in telehealth when I worked for the Department of Veterans Affairs, and we were setting up clinics in Colorado and Utah and Nevada, and it was very hard in Wyoming. It was very hard to get people to adapt to that technology because they’d had [00:40:00] so many face-to-face visits that been the platform that had worked in the past, so we were bringing in this new technology in remote areas, and as we beginning to get some—adapting to that technology, but it was hard. And been doing that for almost twenty years, but it seems like overnight, the United States, it just flipped from face-to-face to telemedicine platform that we have that we’re using now. You know, I use, talk to doctor on the phone. I prefer that. And so it shows that the impact was just almost like a tidal wave. Things are calm one moment, the next moment the wave comes and sweeps everything away and you got to start over. That’s just the speed of the change that I’ve seen in several things since COVID appeared in the United States. [00:41:00]
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And then course, my concern was just within Muscogee (Creek) Nation, on our reservation. What are we going to do? How are people going to prepare to avoid this virus and deal with it? We didn’t have a vaccine. And so we tracked the development of the vaccines and
the studies that were going on initially with the vaccines, and so there was a group that contacted me, asked me if I could assist them in just looking at the development of vaccines and who we thought were going to be some of the top players in the vaccines. One time, and there still is, you know, thirty different companies looking at potential of having vaccines on the market, and who was leading, and what were they doing? So been involved in that, and so that’s helped me understand, again, the impact of the [00:42:00] virus on society.
DELLINGER: [00:42:05] I’d like to know your understanding and knowledge about COVID 19. Can you talk about what you know about it as far as how it’s contracted and the impact, the physical impact that it’s having on people’s lives?
FLOYD: Well, I think the thing that kind of concerned me the most about COVID is the speed in which it can transfer and the methods that transfers from one person to another. This is really the first time in my life that I’ve seen people needing to wear masks, other than occasionally during the flu or something like that, an epidemic, but never did we really have masks [00:43:00] full-time, pretty much. And the reason is because this virus isn’t just a contact virus. So we want to look at what’s the life of the virus on a surface that you could contact? And I remember us, you know, wiping down everything that came into the house and washing everything that we could, that we’ve contacted because we didn’t really know in the beginning how long this virus lasted on the surface. You know, now we know a little bit more about that, but I think the thing
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that was the scariest thing for me about the virus is that it could be spread just by talking to somebody else and shaking hands with somebody. So the life of that virus and the ability that it would spread in a room, we’re looking at air handling systems and things like that that it was beyond what I think [00:44:00] anybody could imagine. And so I think that had, you know, that invisible spread of the virus, was scary and I think remains so today.
DELLINGER: [00:44:14] Can you share what some of the symptoms are that people are experiencing; those who contract the virus?
FLOYD: Well, that’s another aspect of the virus that I think’s kind of a mystery is just—or not so much as a mystery but is confounding to providers is that the array of symptoms that a person has, whether it’s high fever or just a low-grade fever, you know, respiratory distress. You know, it can range from just being like a sinus infection to no one can breathe so that the range that it has from minor to major exists with [00:45:00] this virus. And so I think one thing that I’ve learned, and people that I’ve talked to that have had the virus, is that they underestimate how quickly it impacts different systems in their bodies.
And then those that have recovered from that and had negative tests, the continuing effects that it has on them, whether it’s being tired, mental fog, memory, a lot of different things continues to impact people who have had it before. And I know a friend who, you know, is a rancher. And just really frustrated because they just can’t go out and feed the cattle like they could before. They get tired just driving the truck out to the field. And I think, man, I’ve never had to do this. And so those things have, I think, [00:46:00] been very, I guess, troubling with this virus.
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DELLINGER: [00:46:10] Okay. And I want to ask you, especially since you mentioned that your mother is ninety-three years old, and you know, obviously she’s not there in the home with you, and Carol’s father as well, how have the two of you kept them safe?
FLOYD: The lifestyle change that comes with dealing with COVID is immense. Everybody wants to go out. We’re social people at the outset. We involve with a lot of different things, and then suddenly it just moves just where you’re almost secluded or locked in, it can be challenging to a lot of people. With our own family it’s been that way. And so with my own [00:47:00] mom, I haven’t been able to hug my mom in a year. So we go down, and we have to make sure more than six feet apart, wear your mask, and I’m going to wear my mask. And so it’s kind of like drive to Mom’s house, and if I’m going to take something to her, leave it outside the door and wave at her or talk to her on the phone. It’s really changed, and to me not in a good way, but things that we’ve had to adapt to to make sure that we’re both safe. And then to ask her, you know, who are you around? And now with the vaccines too they have your shots, and are you still wearing your mask when you go out? And you still safely distancing from others? You want to keep your loved ones around you and healthy, and it’s a real challenge.
DELLINGER: [00:48:00] Yes, it is. And you know, it’s something that, unfortunately, we have all—everyone in this country and of course the world, this is how we’ve had to live over the last year. and it has made it difficult. I want to ask you a question now, and you and I talked about this previous to this interview. I want to ask if either yourself or anyone in your family or even a friend—do you know anyone who has contracted or has—yeah contracted the virus?
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FLOYD: Sure, yes. The answer definitely is yes. And some have passed because of the virus. We have a family member who got the virus, was employed, had worked for thirty years, and now is happy to take early retirement because he can no longer work. They [00:49:00] don’t have COVID, but they can’t work anymore. They just don’t have the strength to work. And so it’s impacted their family a great deal. And so we had another family member. Her mom got the virus, and she’s almost as old as my mom, and so they’re a smaller family than ours, but it changed—they had to deal with the fact that she’s no longer here. What’s going to happen to the family?
And another one is we talk to them on the phone but we really can’t see them right now. And so we’ve been impacted as a family. Fortunately, you know, we’ve not lost a direct family member to COVID. We’ve been blessed in that regard. But [00:50:00] it’s certainly impacted our family, much like every other Creek family, because I don’t know too many people that have not been affected by it. And when we moved here to Tulsa last summer, we had some work done here at the house. An electrician came, and we were scared because the guy didn’t have a mask, and so we talked about that. And he said, “Aw, it’s okay. I don’t really think it’s going to happen.” Well, learn about a month later his mom got it, and she died.
DELLINGER: Oh my gosh.
FLOYD: You know, that’s really sad. And just showing, haven’t seen him since then, but talked to his boss, but it’s just like, that’s—you can’t predict things and can’t take it for granted that you’re not going to be affected by it, and it’s a tough lesson to learn when that happens like that.
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[00:51:00] And then other friends and acquaintances that I have, that some of them have passed because of COVID. And it’s been tough. You know, I won’t see them anymore, and good people. I know one good friend of mine I’ve known since grade school passed from the virus, and he caught it at his work. I’m thinking, “Gosh, he didn’t even know what happened and where it came from, and, you know, it took his life.”
So those lessons are really hard to learn. And then I just look at the impact that it has on our communities, and these people being gone, the people that are left, now thinking, well, you know, I wish I could have visited with this person before. I should have seen them more, done more for them, and now they’re gone. So, you know, I see a lot [00:52:00] of, I guess, distress in communities. We get calls from people that, you know, are citizens of the tribe, and you know, the financial hardships that they face with COVID, whether it’s associated with just the healthcare and burial costs or just afterwards. Because we lose somebody who’s the worker of the family, and that income’s gone. What are they going to do? And it’s really tough hearing some of the issues that people are facing right now. And just, it really demoralizes you, or it does me, a lot of times thinking, “Gosh, what can I do? Wish I could do more,” but you end up just kind of working with them to try to console them as they go through some really tough times, and including in our own family. So we’ve [00:53:00] all had to really change how we live our lives.
And it’s been exciting but in the negative type of way a change in our lives. I continue to go back to 1918 and ’19 when the pandemic was here and the affect it had within the Creek Nation, and my great-grandmother is buried near Eufaula. And I recall, gosh, it’s been forty years ago or so when I was at the cemetery and talking to the person that was helping to clean up the cemetery. We were visiting, and he wanted to take me over to the older part of the cemetery.
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He said, “Hey, I want to show you something.” And he said, “Look at all these graves and these headstones? And what do you see?” And I said, “Well, just headstones.” [00:54:00] He said, “No, look at the year. It’s 1918, 1919.” And he said, “This whole section of the cemetery was people who died during that period of time.
DELLINGER: Wow.
FLOYD: Here we are a hundred years later, the same thing is happening. You know, I have a friend that operates a funeral home, and talk to him occasionally, and he says that, you know, he’s afraid once somebody passes away about not only the body but the family coming in and
having to deal with some really tough issues of how you conduct a funeral, or do you conduct a funeral? And so it’s just examples. One friend of mine who passed away, they had no service. And he was cremated. There’s no really physical presence of him anymore. The family had no way to really hold a service like we would have in the past with friends and family [00:55:00] coming. He’s just gone. So it just really raises a lot of questions of how do we deal with this? And it’s very troubling.
DELLINGER: [00:55:14] Yes. It’s had a huge impact. And one of the biggest issues has been the hospitalization of folks who have come down with COVID-19 and their families not being able to be there and, you know, say goodbye, if their loved one is passing from COVID. And then the whole situation with the funeral services has been another big issue, very difficult issue for people. You and I, when we had a previous conversation, you had touched briefly on the impact that COVID-19 has had on the Muscogee Nation as a whole. And [00:56:00] I’ve like for
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you to share just a little bit with that. You had actually given me a number of Muscogee citizens that you know have passed away. Can you just briefly talk about that?
FLOYD: Well, I have an estimate that it’s over two hundred at this point of our citizens who passed in the past twelve months from COVID. And you know, yes, we’re a tribe of more than 90,000 people, but we’re also a tribe of families and communities, and when you look at those who live in Oklahoma and live on our reservation and the impact it’s had, it’s been tremendous. And so when it spread out just in this area, those over two hundred people have had a tremendous impact upon the lives of our tribe [00:57:00] and of our tribal members.
And so we’re dealing with a lot different things right now, you know, just people that I know that the ceremonial ground people that we’ve lost in here that I’m aware of and just the continuing feeling of what’s going to happen now that they’re gone? And who’s going to replace them? And just, it’s a huge gap in a lot of different ways. So I’m fortunate, I think we’re all fortunate that our healthcare system has really stepped up, that when you look at the state of Oklahoma and immunization rates, tribes have played tremendously important role in getting people vaccinated. And I think some of that goes back to our public health principles that the health system was based upon. And this is when it pays off.
This is when you really enact those measures that will save other people’s [00:58:00] lives. We’re fortunate that we have hospitals that our own citizens can be in. And at least we know that other tribal members are caring for them, even if the family can’t be there to hold their hand during that time. I think that’s really worked to our advantage, and very happy that we have that. And I feel that there’s been the planning that they’ve had to take care of the communities has, I think, been a tremendous asset to our people, and our think our people really appreciate
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that. And I hear from people who are so glad that they were able to go in to our emergency room and our hospital and care for our people because they understand it. And now they’re well, and they’ve got the health care system help them as they deal with the, you know, remaining issues they may have from COVID.
DELLINGER: [00:59:00] Yeah, so you saying these things takes me into my next couple of questions. Actually, I was going to ask you how you think that the Muscogee (Creek) Nation leadership as well as our Muscogee (Creek) Nation Health Department have performed throughout the pandemic and with their testing and their care of our people in our Muscogee (Creek) Nation facilities and now with the vaccination process. Can you talk just a little bit more about your thoughts on that?
FLOYD: Sure. You know, I think that all the tribes were caught off guard, and we all were in trying to understand or trying to anticipate what the impact was going to be within our tribe. I know that, you know, [01:00:00] last year the relief packages were going through Congress, you know, Muscogee (Creek) Nation was, I think, very well-positioned to receive resources that it needed. The data that’s private, collected through the healthcare system was very helpful in putting together what our numbers were, what our needs were, and so we received resources that, you know, they weren’t continuing, but the resources that we received were intended to help us deal with the current situation and to position the tribe to avoid the recurrence of the virus and the pandemic in the future.
So you know, improvements in the healthcare system, now, you know, to see we have mobile clinics. They can go out and serve as immunization clinics in communities that are
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smaller and maybe more remote. I think [01:01:00] it’s a great thing. Being able to respond has helped us, and you know, keep talking about the healthcare system, but we rely on our healthcare system at this time, you know, for many more things than we had in the past. I know going in for my own shot at our clinic, I felt very pleased, you know, very fortunate that we could have a good-quality facility that they were following the principles that we needed to follow and the practices that they had in place to keep everybody apart, to observe people after their shots, to make sure we had a follow-up appointment. Those things are very important. I give them 100 on the test if they were to be scored because they did an amazing job. They were very serious about the work that they did but compassionate. And I think that helps, and that’s what our people need and they needed at that time.
The infrastructure [01:02:00] of the Nation, as I’d talked before about having master plan is what we need to do, now we need to have an addition factor of social distancing within the workplace and making sure that we can still serve people while we couldn’t all be together. And I know that in the normal time our folks are very near each other. You can go see somebody if you need to meet with them and work through an issue to help somebody. We didn’t have that. It’s all by email or phone, or try to catch somebody if you could. And so the resources, you know, now with the meat processing plant, you know, that’s something that we worked on in terms of the plan, but in going forward, that’s what we need so that we have our own cattle operation. We can process the food. We can avoid some of the problems of the food shortage that [01:03:00] we’ve experienced this past year. But now, being able to manage it ourself, the new GSA Building in Okmulgee, you know, something had been much needed, we didn’t have the resources for, now to be able to do that, expand it, and be able to have the support for the other departments of the tribe and our citizens as well, those things are much needed. And so I
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just feel pleased that we’ve been able to put some things in place. It’s been long needed, but we’ve put them into place so that it can help protect us from the effects of the virus.
DELLINGER: [01:03:44] Yes. I want to go back to something that you briefly touched on. You stated that you have been vaccinated, and I’m just curious, do you know which vaccine you received?
FLOYD: Yes, I do. And so I was [01:04:00] pleased to get that one, and so Moderna is the one that I got, and so worked well. You know, I’m still not out and about and probably won’t for a period of time. I think, you know, my projection is until in this area, probably July at the earliest to be able to safely go out, provided that we don’t see a rebound of the virus or of the rebound of the virus that’s been mutated into something else. Now we got the UK virus that’s coming out that spreads even faster and more prevalent. And so we’ve got to be able to anticipate that. I think it’s been a very welcome thing with the vaccines that they seem to be effective to the other strains of the virus or the—I wouldn’t say mutations but some of the changes in the virus. That’s what [01:05:00] we need. And I think those other vaccines come on the market, they will be anticipating that and hopefully adjusting for that. But I think for several more months we’re going to really need to continue the measures that we have in place right now and the practices that we can be safe and we can all come back to some semblance of the life we had before COVID.
DELLINGER: [01:05:32] Yes. Thank you for mentioning these new strains that have popped up here in recent months because they are definitely a part of this ongoing process and the fact that
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we all do still need to remain vigilant, even after our vaccinations. Chief Floyd, did you have any side effects from the vaccine?
FLOYD: No, I did not, just a little bit of a sore arm. I didn’t experience any [01:06:00] side effects. So I felt pretty fortunate about that. I think maybe one thing I did feel was seemed like about a week later it felt like I—you know, I thought, well, I kind of have a temperature, something. And I thought, yeah, what is this? Because only place I’d been out was to get my shot, and I was trying to figure out, okay, did I catch something else? But it went away in like, within twenty-four hours and everything’s back to normal. So I think it was just my body, you know, fighting the virus or building up the immunity.
DELLINGER: [01:06:35] Right, well, that’s great. I want to ask you. I think you have touched briefly on this earlier in the interview, but how do you think the state of Oklahoma and the federal government have performed in handling the COVID pandemic from both a health and economic perspective?
FLOYD: [01:07:00] From the healthcare aspect of it at the federal level, it’s like they fumbled the ball that was given to them. Having worked in the government and prepared for viruses and epidemics and pandemics in the past, you had plans in place. I recall in some of my hospitals that I manage that even in the emergency room we have isolation rooms. Somebody comes in and you don’t know what they’ve got, put them in the isolation rooms. And even the tests that we needed to perform, we had a separate part of the lab or move part of the lab down to the emergency room or just other parts of hospitals so that we can seclude the patients and isolate
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them and perform the tests that we need. You had measures in place that you could take, but it seemed like the measure that we took was to deny everything, which as the exact opposite of what you need if you wanted to catch something early and deal with it. So I’m sorry, [01:08:00] but I’m not real positive about what we did. I think at the state level even more so.
And so even, you know, study public health in college, you learn that you have public health measures, and you have kind of the political effects that could come into the picture, and you try to balance those. And so you can get people healthy and keep them healthy but the same time having a life. And we just seem to not handle that well at all and disregard the facts of the virus and go on, you know, unfounded claims about the virus to make important decisions. That just was frustrating to me, frustrating for me in the state of Oklahoma as well. And so, you know, now the picture seems to be changing somewhat, as we kind of hopefully [01:09:00] come through the tail end of this virus. But I hope that people learn from this that you have to take a different approach because I think we could have mitigated the numbers of deaths, the number of people affected, and the outcomes if there had been different actions taken. And I could probably go on for a day talking about them, but I just don’t think that we did this well. I’m hoping that he lessons learned are something that we can apply because two years we may be dealing with something similar.
DELLINGER: [01:09:35] Yes. And so that actually brings me to my last question for this interview. In closing, you know, for our future generations of Muscogee who, they may find themselves trying to survive a global health and economic event such as what [01:10:00] we have been experiencing now for the last year with the coronavirus, what words of wisdom do you have or can you give about living through and surviving such a catastrophic event?
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FLOYD: Well, I think some of my suggestions may seem kind of minor, but I think that they can be very impactful, should we face this type of situation again. And memory is one good thing to have here because look at Muscogee (Creek) people and what we do recall from our past. We still talk about the removal and the things that were endured by our people but how that strengthened us [01:11:00] to try to recall what occurred. Once they did get here, you know, we rebuilt our society. We put institutions in place for education. The church is rebuilt, so we rebuilt our lives.
But we didn’t forget about the people that we lost during that time. We lost a tremendous number of people, somewhere I think about three thousand or so people during the removal. I think at this time we remember those people that we lost, whether it’s two hundred or three hundred people that we may lose during this period of time, they had lives, and they contributed to our community. So we should remember them, remember that we’d like to avoid that in the future. How do we begin to do it? What lessons did that teach us? Because something led up to us losing our members, [01:12:00] and I think we should ask ourselves what can we do to make sure that doesn’t happen again? But I think recalling what we’ve gone through and using our knowledge to help us in the future is going to be very important. And so it kind of gets back to the history of our people and kind of studying what we’ve had to endure before, how we dealt with it, how we overcame it, how we went back in and built our society and how that sustained us. And this can sustain us again if we just merely recall and have a good memory of this time and teach our children and grandchildren about it so they don’t have to, hopefully, have that type of impact in their lives.
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DELLINGER: [01:12:55] Mvto, Chief Floyd, for those words. [01:13:00] Is there anything else that you feel like you would like to say or share about your experiences and thoughts about the COVID-19 pandemic? Have we missed anything?
FLOYD: Well, I think the last question that you asked kind of prompts the next—I guess next phase of our lives, and how do we go back and kind of reclaim the lives of our people and our communities and go on with strengthening our culture, strengthening our faith in these things
that sustain us? Because we’ve lost some very important people within the Nation, and they just can’t [01:14:00] be replaced. But what can we do to reinstate the things that they contributed to our lives and the richness that they gave us? You know, we’ve got to be able to carry on.
So how do we do that? Who are those people that we reach out to? So my thoughts go to the mekkos in the ground, and how do you begin to put into place or put back the things that you need to carry on the administration of your grounds and administer to the lives of the people that are active in the grounds? And the same with churches, lost a number of people in the church in
the ministries and the membership of our churches, and these were important people [01:15:00] in different roles here. And they really can’t be replaced. You know, I’ve got memories of some of them, and what they did and who they were, and if you go back there and you go to the grounds of the churches, they’re not going to be there. And there’s going to be just—I know myself I’m just going to think, gosh, I’ll be thinking about them but the gap that’s left, and how do we fill that gap going forward? And so I hope that all of our tribal citizens can look at, you know, what can they do to begin to be active, to participate and whether it’s a community event or church or ceremony ground or sporting event and to bring back what we had before. It won’t be the same, but how can we bring people [01:16:00] in to help fill these roles and these gaps
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that have occurred so that we can have a life that we all enjoy and we look forward to? So it’s going to be different. Even looking at the festival, are we going to have a festival this year? That’s a big event with thousands of people coming. It’s like a huge family reunion of the tribe. We didn’t have it last year. If we have one this year it won’t be the same. And so we’ve got to adapt, but I think at the same time we’ve got to prepare, and this is a good time to look at changing things so that our lives going forward can even be stronger, and I sure hope that it is. We’ve got some amazing people in the tribe and an amazing spirit, and that’s what we need at this time.
DELLINGER: [01:16:55] Yes, I agree, Chief Floyd. You know, we’re not out of this thing yet, [01:17:00] and there is going to need to be a rebuilding process definitely, and as you have said, our ancestors did it. They did it on multiple occasions, and we just need to, I think be able to draw from their example and their strength as we move forward with whatever we have waiting for us in the way of this pandemic. So I just want to say mvto for taking the time to participate in this project. Your thoughts and words here today are so important and really greatly appreciated. So thank you very much.
FLOYD: Mvto. It’s been my pleasure, mvto.
END OF INTERVIEW
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