Chief David Hill, Interview

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program

“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Chief David Hill
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: June 1, 2022
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is June 1, 20222 and I am in Okmulgee, Oklahoma, interviewing David Hill, Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. I’m performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled “The Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19.” Chief Hill, thank you so much for taking time out of what I know is a busy, busy schedule to be here with me today. And we’re going to begin this interview with some questions about your personal life and your background. And so, let’s start with what is your tribal town and clan?
DAVID HILL: My tribal town is New Tulsa, and my clan is Beaver Clan, Itchhasua. DELLINGER: And Chief Hill, where were you born?
HILL: I was born 1964 in Talihina.
DELLINGER: And [00:01:00] do you know the facility there that you were born in? HILL: That Indian hospital, I guess.
DELLINGER: Choctaw? Would that be the Choctaw Hospital?
HILL: Choctaw, yeah.
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DELLINGER: And who are your parents? Will you please share just a little bit about each one of them?
HILL: My parents, my father was George Hill, and my mother was JoAnne Hicks Hill. My dad passed away when I was probably eleven and a half. He worked on the tree service and then he went to work in the maintenance department in, I think it used to be called PRESCOR in Sapulpa, right during his passing. And my mom, I think she worked in the hospital at Okemah for a little bit, and then she worked in a garment factory in Meeker and Bristow, in Okemah at that time when they used to have it.
DELLINGER: Now, where were your parents originally from? [00:02:00]
HILL: My mom was originally from the Mason area, and my dad was from Wetumka. Before I was born, I think in ’63, they originally lived in Wetumpka, and moved to Bristow on Grandpa Hill’s allotted land. So, they currently still live on that property. I’m the only one that lives probably three or four miles away.
DELLINGER: What was your Grandpa Hill’s first name?
HILL: Tiller. Tiller Hill.
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DELLINGER: Now, Mason, I have to admit, I’ve never heard of Mason. Is that down around Wetumpka?
HILL: No, Mason is kind of north, northwest of Okemah, between Okemah and Bristow on Highway 48. It’s a real small community. Actually, south of that is called Buckeye. My grandmother, I think they started at Hicks Mission Church, [00:03:00] now it’s called Buckeye Church. That was way back then, probably in the eighties or sooner than that. So, it’s still there, still exists.
DELLINGER: And do you still have your mother with you? Is she still living?
HILL: Yes, my mom’s still alive. She’s eighty-five or eighty-six. Still trying to get out there and mow. She’ll mow the yard and have her long-sleeved shirt on, her big old hat on, and she still likes to mow.
DELLINGER: Well, good for her. That’s great. What about siblings? Do you have any siblings, and if so, what are their names?
HILL: I have two older sisters. They’re twins, Jeanette and Janet, and I have two older brothers, Sammy and Solomon. I always thought it was strange that my name is David and I’ve got a brother named Solomon and Sammy, you’d think in the Bible being Samuel. It’s kind of interesting.
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DELLINGER: Right. And you had shared with me an interesting story about how you got [00:04:00] your name. Would you like to share that?
HILL: Yeah. When I was born, which I was born at seven months, my mom was saying, and I weighed just a little over four pounds. And I guess the doctor—and my daughter posted this on Facebook, I didn’t realize she talked to my mom—had mentioned whenever I was born, he thought maybe that it was just too much for Mom to take care of the other four and want to know if he could adopt me, in which Mom was just saying, “No,” her mom would take care of me, my grandmother. And at that point, she never did ask her, but she said, “I had to tell the doctor something.” But he wanted to know if he could name me, which he said he’s going to name me David, after David in the Bible, because he’s small, and he’s going to be mighty, whatever. And I think his name was Walter, [00:05:00] so my middle name, Walter, is named after him. So, that’s how I got my name David Walter Hill. I tried to contact that doctor, because after what my daughter had posted, it’d be neat to talk to the doctor and let him see how I turned out. Not so small anymore, but just see where I came from, and see where I’m at today. I thought it’d be interesting. I did contact Chief Batton from Choctaw Nation, and he was trying to help me locate the doctor since it’s in Choctaw country but haven’t had any luck yet trying to locate him.
DELLINGER: Have you done the math as to how old that gentleman might be at this point?
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HILL: I haven’t, yeah. Because on the birth certificate, I don’t think it showed how old he was. So, I haven’t had any luck. Still searching.
DELLINGER: Well, I hope you find him one day. That would be a great reunion. Now, [00:06:00] your siblings, do you all live close by? Are you guys a pretty tight-knit family?
HILL: I would say we are. I always, I don’t want to say I blame myself, but our family, always heard both my sisters were real good at softball and basketball, and I think once I was born, Mom had to go back to work, and both my sisters stayed home to take care of me while Mom had to go to work and they never finished high school. But they all live there both my sisters, which they stayed there and take care of Mom. My older brother Sammy lives there, and Solomon, which always call him Tonto, they still live on the allotted land that was given.
DELLINGER: Now, I want to ask you about your grandparents. I think grandparents are so important to us and bring so much to our lives, [00:07:00] and I wanted to give you an opportunity just to talk a little bit about your grandparents.
HILL: I never knew my dad’s side, my Grandpa Tiller or grandmother, her name was Annochee. I never knew them. But on my mom’s side, my grandma was still alive, Sarah Hicks, and Grandpa Cheparney Ahfonoke. I think he passed away in ’69, I was probably four or five years old at that time, just barely remember him. But just knowing what
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Grandma had relayed to us, the history. As kids, me and my brothers were real nosey. We would go visit with her on a weekend. She always chewed tobacco, so she wanted to know, “Did you bring me any candy?” So, [00:08:00] me and my brother would buy the little snuff can, or the plug, and me and him would alternate who bought what and go visit with her, that’s first thing she wanted to know was, did we bring any candy? So, we’d just sit there and visit. But there’s some documents she shared with me and my brother, and Mom. Once she passed away she gave it to my Mom, it was old documents written in Creek. It was given to her by her dad, Charley Coker. And when you read the history book, when I was in high school, it seemed like there’s a little small paragraph about Chitto Harjo during the early 1900s, during the rebellion that happened back then, during the land run. And once Mom received the documents, I’m just curious and just start looking through it. [00:09:00] Well, I happened to see Chitto Harjo’s name on there and I start asking Mom, did Grandpa know him? You see this in the history book. And she told me, yeah, and she told me a little bit. Because Mom didn’t know what really happened back then in the early 1900s. So, me just being curious, I start going to the paper. It’s in Creek. Some of it I couldn’t make out because the way from what I understand, Charley Coker could not read or write English but he knew the alphabet to write it in Creek, so there’s probably four hundred, I think I counted them all, 412 pages, a written document, I’m going to say ninety five percent is written in Creek language. And so, I was going through that, which my mom got onto me, “Quit reading that, you’re going to have nightmares,” or, “You’re going to have dreams,” which I didn’t listen. Started looking into it, and it talked a lot about the removal, and the land that [00:10:00] was taken away during that time. And so, I started reading a lot of stuff on Chitto Harjo.
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And that’s what’s kind of strange of 2020, when the Supreme Court ruling, the things that Charley Cocker and Chitto Harjo was fighting for against separating the land or dividing it up is they wanted to leave it as a reservation. And to see it happened in 2020 on July 9, to see it come true, what they were fighting for, and it just so happens when I’m in office.
And I thought it was kind of strange, but it was really unique it did happen during that time. But there’s a lot of history. I’ve always told the girls—I have three daughters, ShaRee, ShaLae, and ShaVon—that kind of go back in time, my wife, Monica, her last name is Watson, [00:11:00] her family is from Dustin area, and she is the fourth direct descendant of William Weatherford, who is known as Red Eagle. And during the Alabama, he fought against Andrew Jackson at the time, which they had the family Bible, and it shows all the history and the names that who was on the Trail of Tears to come to Oklahoma, in which our history, now, mine is based in Oklahoma, fighting for the land as well. And I told my daughters that they don’t realize it, but they have a strong bloodline going through them. The blood runs in their veins as well, from Red Eagle and Charley Coker. Just strong people. So, there’s always strong Muscogee women. That’s what I told them, just to stay strong. So, I mean, I can talk all day about that. I’m still going through it. During COVID [00:12:00] time, when everyone was at home working, I asked the Language Department if they can come in, and the four speakers in that department had divided everything that I had and put it the best they could in Creek. And so, I’m actually typing it up now. I stayed up till, I think, three o’clock the other morning. I had probably sixty pages already typed up, and I’m going to sit down and write in English what it said. And it’s really interesting to see Hickory Ground mentioned in there, Oce Vpokv, and there’s Thewarle named in there. So, I don’t know if it’s naming all the tribal towns back
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then. There’s also mention that Tecumseh, but he spelt it different, the way actually he felt how it's [00:13:00] pronounced to him. I don’t want to say it in the original Creek, but far as Grandpa Charley Coker couldn’t read or write, but he wrote it the way it sounded to him. and it’s a very interesting to read that, and to see that his trip, going to Washington DC, him and Chitto Harjo, and to see Tecumseh’s name in there, and Opothleyahola’s name in there. I just can’t wait to get it translated in English to see what it actually says. So, it’s pretty interesting.
DELLINGER: That’s fantastic. Yeah, you’re sitting on a treasure trove of family history and Muscogee history. So, that’s wonderful. So, I just wanted to clarify where you spent the majority of your childhood. If someone ask you where did you grow up, how do you answer that question? [00:14:00]
HILL: I grew up in a small community called Gypsy. It’s south of Bristow. After I was born, I was basically raised there my childhood life and now I guess just still living there. When I was in first, second grade, I couldn’t speak English at all. Second grade was when I started learning. And it’s kind of strange, when you hear a new language, my Creek was up here and my English was down here, so it’s just kind of shifted. I still understand everything that’s spoken in our language, probably twenty-five percent I can carry on a conversation but I can still understand because the Creek language is still spoken at our house, at Mom’s, anytime we go down there to visit, my mom, both sisters and my brothers still speak the language. After [00:15:00] I grew up, after I went to school, there was always the spring and fall, I just kind of remember Dad, that was the
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thing, we’d go to ceremonial grounds during the spring, summer, and fall, until they ended in the offseason. I remember going with my mom to take our grandmother to church, just wherever she wanted. She went everywhere. We lived in what they called a shotgun house back then. It was my Mom, Dad, brothers and sisters, there was seven of us, and I still remember Grandma coming over, staying with us, and three other cousins, Johnny, Terry, and Mary. So, you had seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, in that little bitty old house. And to me, that was just a way of life. It was [00:16:00] second, third grade when we finally got a bathroom, otherwise there was just an outhouse. We still got the water from the spring that was on the other side of the creek, where my uncle and aunt lived. I still remember that. The well is still there. I don’t know how good it is, now. But to me, that’s just the way of life. I didn’t know any better. I never really knew what else was out there. After going to grade school, high school, probably, eighth grade is where I met my wife, Monica. She went to Depew, and I had to make a decision where to go to high school, after eighth grade, they only went to eighth grade. I could either go to Depew, Bristow, or Mason. A lot of my kinfolk, my cousins lived in Mason, kind of wanted me to go to school there, but I remember the football coach from Bristow, his name was Coach Scott, had come over to watch us [00:17:00] play basketball and I didn’t realize it, that he was coach there. Which, Gypsy is a small school, and the gym’s not very big at all. And I guess I threw the ball from one end to the other playing basketball and he wanted me to come play football, which I did. I ended up going to Depew where my brothers and sisters went, and the rest of my cousin and that’s where I met Monica, my wife. I played football one year, my freshman year. But I loved basketball. So, I played basketball my freshman and sophomore year. I will say, not to brag, but I love
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basketball and I was always taught to work on my weakness, which it was my height. I’m only five-eight. I always had to play against my older brothers in basketball, so I just had to be quicker. So, I start wearing these ankle weights, jumping on boxes, and jumping [00:18:00] on trash cans, that fifty-five-gallon drum, and I got to where I can grab the rim. I guess that was my best time was my senior year where I could actually dunk the goal with the volleyball, but I couldn’t with the basketball, I just could not grip it. And I guess that’s one of the things, after me and my wife got married, we got married in sophomore year. We were both sixteen. We’re still married, forty-one years. It’s one of the things I wanted to get my daughters growing up, is the things I felt I couldn’t get. Christmastime was always good for me and my brothers. We got maybe a football and basketball that we always had to share, but they made sure we had clothes. We had pants, shirt, things we needed, shoes. I guess that’s how Mom and Dad thought, you get the stuff that you need, and we would share something to play with. It was always good, and I [00:19:00] I tended to do the same thing. You always see Christmastime where people got a lot of presents, but I always tell my wife, I tell Monica and the girls, “Give them clothes, give them stuff that they need.” So, it’s just the way you was raised and grew up, try to use that same mentality with them.
DELLINGER: Right, yeah. We always want better for our children. Going back to your childhood, did your parents and grandparents—so, I know you’ve already mentioned that you attended your ceremonial ground, which again, that was New Tulsa, correct?
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HILL: On my mom’s side was at New Tulsa, my dad came from Nuyaka. Back in the early thirties, which my mom still has a photograph in their house, they started Okfuskee back in the early [00:20:00] thirties, 1930s. That’s where my mom’s dad, they had originally started Okfuskee there. So, that’s where, I guess you could say, where my ceremonial ground is at, is Okfuskee. That’s on Highway 48 between Okemah and Bristow. So, we’re still there today.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, you’ve also mentioned attending church. And so, did your parents and grandparents have a church that they attended?
HILL: Not really. Dad was more traditional. Mom was, too. But she took Grandma wherever she wanted to go. They didn’t really have a church, so to speak, until Grandma and her family had started the Hicks Mission Church, now it’s Buckeye Church. So, I guess you could say that was kind of like the family church, [00:21:00] there.
DELLINGER: All right. And so, you marry Monica, and you guys are in high school. After marriage, where did life take you?
HILL: After we got married, we stayed with her mom for a little bit and started working in the oil field. Creek Nation had a program back then, which I went and worked at Okemah. I worked for, it was kind of like the Elderly Citizen Nutrition Center, I guess, in Okemah. And I was kind of like their maintenance guy. I did all the mowing, did whatever they needed, painting, and also delivered food to the elders, which I met a lot of
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Creek citizens in that facility, and kind of met with them. It’s kind of strange once I got through with all my work, [00:22:00] I would ask them, they didn’t have anything for me to do, so they said, “Do you know how to quilt?” So, I’d sit around the table with the elderly women and start learning how to quilt. Then, they was making pottery, so I started doing that, just doing whatever they wanted me to do. So, it was interesting to sit there. That’s where I earned a lot of respect for the elderly people, there. It was good. And it was good for me to start there. Then, I went to the oilfield, worked for John Cassidy in Stroud. I think I was seventeen there, working. I was a welder’s helper. As I got older, a couple years, I got my own welding truck and I started working on the oil well service. So, I was doing both. I probably stayed there probably five years. Then, I work for a pastor in [00:23:00] Depew, Mr. Clyde McGuire. He owned a pulling unit, kind of like a drilling rig, so I went to work for him for probably two or three years. Then after that, we moved to Depew, where the girls went to school, and then I started taking night classes for aircraft mechanics, which—I can’t remember. Once I finished that, I started applying for aircraft companies in Tulsa. And at the same time, I went to school where I worked for Mr. McGuire, another friend of mine that worked at pulling was in the Air Guard. He was in the National Guard, so he was trying to tell me how you ought to come join, and they’re [00:24:00] only gone on weekends once a month, and just learning a lot of different stuff. So, I was at the point when I was getting ready to sign for the Air Guard, and I finally got a call from Nordam, I’d done an interview there, and they wanted to know if I can go ahead and start working. So, that’s how I got into aircraft. I did the aircraft business for thirty years, twenty-nine years at Nordam. And basically, that’s where I learned everything that’s come up so far, as far as leadership style. In the
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middle of that, I actually got on the school board at Depew. They wanted to know if I’d serve on the school board, which I did probably seven and a half years. For two years, I’d been the president of the school bord, and just different things I’ve been able to do to learn more, serve that, and also work for Nordam. I got into the Spartan School [00:25:00] of Aeronautics, on their curriculum board. Then, we started going to the Bristow Indian Community Center, and they put me on the business board there. So, somehow, I just kind of kept being volunteered to be on these different boards. And soon as the girls got old enough, we started coaching in softball, me and my wife. And there was times I was coaching both older ones—because my two older ones, ShaRee is one year, one month, and one day older than ShaLae, so those two are always playing together, and once ShaVon was born, probably four years later, we coached both teams all the way up, Coach Pitch, all the way up to high school. So, it’s a very interesting life. Like I said, I think me and Monica, we tend to finish our own sentences a lot of times, we just know each other that well. Life’s [00:26:00] been great.
DELLINGER: So, what do you think drew you out of the oil field into the aerospace industry? Was there anything specific that happened?
HILL: Well, that’s when the oil boom, I guess, was starting to go down. So, I had to think of what else I needed to do in life to take care of my family. Because as a parent, I feel that’s your responsibility, to take care of your family. So, just trying to figure out. I had some other relatives that worked in aerospace. I guess that’s where I got interested in doing that. And just had to do something else.
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DELLINGER: Now, prior to becoming chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, you served on the Muscogee (Creek) Nation National Council. How many years did you serve on the council?
HILL: I served on the council for twelve years, [00:27:00] while I was attending the Bristow Indian Community Center, there’s two council reps that always attended the community center, so I thought it was interesting. It was the former chief, George Tiger, was council rep, and Roger Barnett was a council rep, so I just asked them, because I knew them both, Roger was actually the same age as my brother, Solomon, so I was asking him, “What does it feel like to serve on the council? What all do you do?” And election was coming up and they said, “Well, you ought to think about running if you’re interested.” I didn’t know what to think. So, I ran for council rep, and I think the incumbent that was there, I ended up winning. It was surprising. But it’s been good ever since. Because I wanted to serve on the National Council to, [00:28:00] and I want to say better serve these citizens, but what could I do to serve the citizens? And once I got on, just trying to learn the steps, both of which, they helped me and gave me some directions and gave me some resources where to look, and mostly, it was just reading legislation, reading the law, reading the constitution. That really helped me, helped me through going through twelve years. Probably midway, I served as the sergeant of arms. Then, I served as the second speaker, two terms. Basically, that’s about it.
DELLINGER: What was your district?
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HILL: Creek District, I’m sorry. I think my last term is when it was changed where [00:29:00] you basically serve all. Which didn’t really bother me when they asked my opinion, because while I was serving where you only serve your district, I did have a people that you knew at different ceremonial grounds throughout other districts or churches that my grandmother went to, they knew who I was, so they would call me. And so, that really didn’t affect me, so to speak, whenever they went to where you’re voted on by everyone instead of just in your district, because I was just serving whoever would call. I feel like regardless of where you live, if a citizen calls you for assistance or help, that’s what your job was as council rep, do the best you can to serve the citizens.
DELLINGER: At one point [00:30:00] in your life did you aspire to become Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation?
HILL: Before I ran two years ago for election of 2020, I was asked four years before that to run. I just felt I wasn’t ready. I just wanted to serve another term as council rep. And then, I had some individuals ask me, some other citizens ask me if I was interested in running for 2020 election. And I thought about it, and prayed about it, and talked to my family, and they really liked me serving as council rep, but they knew that the responsibility was going to be larger. And so, I made a choice to go in and run for Principal Chief, to take on that responsibility, to do what’s best for the nation, and to do what’s best for citizens.
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DELLINGER: My next question, [00:31:00] you kind of just touched on it, I think, I was going to going to ask you why has becoming chief been important to you?
HILL: Well, I kind of touched on it earlier about my great-grandfather. That’s the way my mom had always mentioned, traditionally, if someone passed away in our ceremonial ground or churches, that it’s our job to help that family, or anyone in the community. When I took on this position, that’s what I felt to do what’s best. It is a big responsibility. As the saying goes, you’re not going to make everyone happy. That’s true, but you can just do the best you can. And it’s been challenging but it’s always in my heart to do what’s best for the nation and citizens. [00:32:00] After inauguration, it finally hit. It came true, I am Principal Chief, which it was just like, “Wow. What do we do now?” But it’s been great ever since. I guess what did hurt was 2020, during the pandemic, no one expected that. I didn’t expect that. I always just kind of mention, I had probably two days total with the former Chief Floyd. I did come and visit with him and the Second Chief now, Mr. Dell Beaver, we had a visit with Chief Floyd and Second Chief Hicks, like I said, probably a total of two days within the three-week time period that we had him. I always mention that I didn’t have a playbook sitting here that told me, [00:33:00] hey, there’s going to be a pandemic, you’re going to have all the CARES funding, you’re going to have Supreme Court rulings, so we just played it day by day on what we need to do. It was good. We’ve still got challenges, but we’re going through it to do what’s best for the nation.
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DELLINGER: We’re going to talk some more about those things, too. I’d like for you, though, if you would, to share a little bit about your family life in Bristow, Oklahoma.
HILL: Oh, growing up, my family, like I said, we tend to be pretty close. We live on the160-acre allotted land that was given to Tiller Hill back then. We lived on the east side, my Uncle Freeman and Aunt Nancy lived on the west side. There’s a creek that runs right down the middle, so we lived [00:34:00] there. And growing up, we basically stayed in the woods, me and my cousins. I think there was three sons on Uncle Freeman’s side, and Nancy had three boys, as well, two girls she had, and Uncle Freeman had one girl, one girl and three boys. So, pretty much all the boys stayed in the woods. That’s all we did. We didn’t have computers, no cell phones, video games. So, we’d just get up in the morning during the summertime, after school, and we just stayed down in the woods and just did what we could, go hunting during the summertime, and played basketball, rode bicycles down the dirt road. We found stuff to do. We stayed active. Those were good times, really. [00:35:00] I remember Dad, we raised hogs, chickens, that’s how we ate. I’ve seen old photos, too, and I remember the family would get together, our family and plus my mom’s four brothers would come down and we’d kill a hog, and that’s how it was the whole day, just preparing the meal, and killing the hog, chickens, whatever, just have a family get-together. And that’s one of the things that Mom always encourages still do during the holidays, any holidays or someone’s birthday, they would have dinners and all the family would get together. So, I would say we’re a close family.
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DELLINGER: Yeah, and we haven’t even mentioned here today, I know you have grandchildren. Will you share a little bit about them? [00:36:00]
HILL: Oh, we’ve got seven grandkids. The oldest, ShaRee, has the oldest granddaughter, ShaLynn. I gave each one a nickname when they was growing up, so to me, basically, she’s Hoctke. Two boys, Mason and Tagon. So, she has three, but she’s also guardian for my great-niece’s kids, so she actually has five. My middle daughter, ShaLea, has two boys, Cepane and Grayson. And ShaVon, the youngest, has two girls, Annabelle and Presley. It’s kind of strange there, Annabelle named Presley because she’s a big Elvis Presley fan. So, she wanted to name her little sister Presley. So, actually, we have [00:37:00] nine. And it’s good. Every weekend they come over and house full of grandkids.
DELLINGER: That’s nice. I’m sure that gives you a wonderful break from the Monday through Friday things.
HILL: Yeah, it’s also busy, too. There’s a lot of nights I spent my nights on the couch because the grandkids would go sleep in the bed with Monica. So, I’d be on the couch.
DELLINGER: Well, yeah. That’s how that goes sometimes, Grandpa gets the short end of the stick.
HILL: Which, I’ll find when I wake up, I’ll have two or three sleeping right next to me.
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DELLINGER: That’s nice. All right. Well, I tell you what, I think we’re going to wrap up this part of the interview and transition now into some questions about your experiences with COVID-19. So, Chief Hill, the US is in year three [00:38:00] of COVID-19 being in existence, but when in 2020 do you remember first hearing about the COVID-19 virus and how did you first hear about it?
HILL: Probably just a little bit after we came in office in January, Shawn Terry, the Secretary of Health, had came to me—which every Monday, I carried on the meeting with the cabinet—and he brought to my attention that there was a virus that was in China, I believe, and may expand to the United States, we don’t know. So, he just kept on monitoring that, him and his Health Department staff. And I think it was in March, and I still have the photo on my phone, after it started getting worse, we had a meeting, in one of the Health Department conference and we started watching the screen that they had [00:39:00] that had all the slides, and I’d actually seen the zero here in Oklahoma, when they had the United States map, it wasn’t really red, it was speckles, but I’d actually seen the first one go to zero to one where it showed death. So, since then, me and Mr. Terry had almost daily meetings about it, and we decided to have a health taskforce team, and they just updated me almost daily. And so, we had a meeting twice a week, three times a week, then we went five days a week on what we need to do, and once it hit Oklahoma, we just constantly stayed intact on what are we going to do to prevent this getting to here [00:40:00] on our territory, what are we going to do to protect the citizens? That was always on our minds, what are we going to do? How can we prevent this? Because
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always, after it got here in Oklahoma, I pictured it as being in war, you have bullets coming from everywhere, how are you going to protect yourself? So, I think on March 13, when it actually got too big, the cases, the positivity rate, everywhere, and it actually hit, I can’t remember who, but it actually hit our nation, someone tested positive. And it just kept getting worse every day. So, I think it was March 13 I had to call an emergency, declared it a state of emergency to shut down the complex, which [00:41:00] that was a very hard decision to do because we still need to provide services for the citizens. So, there was some departments we had a meeting, like I said, almost daily, what are we going to do? And Tag Office was one of them that wasn’t shutting down, and that was one department we really couldn’t shut down. So, myself, Second Chief, Chief of Staff, then, Mr. Greg Anderson, and the IT department, we went into the Tag Office to see what we could do. And it was open. The doors were wide open and the windows, so we decided to put plexiglass, do what we could to the doors, put magnets on the doors, put a mail slot. That was still one department that we had to still provide services. So, once we had that implemented, we focused on the next one. What are we going to do with Social Services? We still had to call in. One [00:42:00] of the things it did bring to our attention was technology. We still had these meetings and a conference to go to, so we had to prepare—I don’t want to say prepare for the worst, but we had to have all the hotspots ordered for the citizens, or these employees who had to stay home from work. But there’s some areas, you always see south of I-40, that do not get any reception at all, no internet service, so we had to provide hotspots for everyone that had to work from home. And it was difficult. It was difficult times that we had to work through. There’s many nights and days that me and Shawn Terry had talked on the phone, what’s our next step? But after
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that, then we received CARES funding. So, [00:43:00] while we identified areas that’s what we used to implement all the Zoom calls, the new system we had to put in place. Then we were able to build a safe space, which is trying to bring everyone back, trying to decide when to bring them, because we had to do phase one, phase two, phase three, for the employees. So, once we built a safe space, we were able to bring some of them back, the employees, to where they’re in cubicles, they’re six feet apart. So, we just had to come up with different strategies on what we’re going to do to still provide services for the citizens. Like I said, it really caught everyone off guard, but also, it made things better, I feel, on what we can do to help our citizens. [00:44:00] That was the main thing that was really, impacted us here, I guess. Also, having meetings in person, everything’s by Zoom. I always had a meeting with four other tribal leaders, Governor Anoatubby, Chief Batton, Chief Hoskins, and at that time, with Chief Chilcoat. So, we started doing Zoom calls every Wednesday. We all shared ideas, what are we doing? What’s Creek Nation doing? What’s Chickasaw, what’s Choctaw, what’s Seminole, Cherokee? And we always shared ideas. So, at least we could still meet, but it had to be by Zoom or conference call.
DELLINGER: I want to go back to January of 2020. When you were first made aware of COVID-19, what were your thoughts about [00:45:00] it? Were you concerned at that time or hopeful that it wouldn’t make its way into the Muscogee Nation? What were your personal thoughts—
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HILL: It was when Shawn had told me in January, again, that was my first thoughts, what are we going to do to protect our citizens? What can we do? It was very hard. Because we did lose some in 2020. A lot of them were fluent speakers. So, what are we going to do? was our main questions, between both of us. Once we’d come into the office, we got Second Chief involved, what are we going to do? I got the cabinet, because it was a tough decision just on me, but that’s where we all had to work together on what can we do going forward? What can we do to protect [00:46:00] everyone? We got the mask, hand sanitizers we had to implement here at the Nation, but not only that, was the burial systems that we had. There was almost, we’ve seen it where it was once a week, and then it would start to increase, twice a week we had to have a burial system, three times. It just had a big impact on our nation. That was real troublesome to me, concerning to me, because I didn’t want to lose anyone. My goal was to have minimum amount of citizens passing away. That’s one of the things that you just didn’t know when it was going to happen, who was going to get it. That was tough. Those were tough years in January, February, March, every month, every day. [00:47:00]
DELLINGER: Yes. A little bit later, I was going to ask you about what it was like for you as Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, knowing that this was happening on your watch, and it had to be difficult, knowing that you were doing everything that you could and COVID continued to wreak havoc and take our citizens. And so, I appreciate you sharing with us about that, and again, the fact that you really did have to hit the ground running when you came into your administration, and it sounds like there was just this short period of a few weeks, not months, just a few weeks before you really had to start
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confronting COVID and how you were going to protect your people. Do you remember [00:48:00] what some of the initial conversations were that you had with your family and friends about COVID-19?
HILL: Oh, not much. It was just basically, “Stay home.” I’d just stay in contact with them. It was tough because being Native, our nature is to go out and visit, have gatherings, and it was difficult to tell everyone to stay home because you didn’t know. Everyone goes to Walmart; everyone goes to the grocery store and you’re going to meet everyone. So, you had to basically protect yourself, but not only yourself, but the people surrounding you. It was going to be more vulnerable to the elders, so we had to do, how are we going to protect Mom, my older [00:49:00] brother and sisters? Just being on guard twenty-four seven, just basically, you told everyone to stay home. And that was difficult. It’s kind of like telling your own kids, “You can’t do this. You need to stay home.” It was a tough decision to tell everyone, protect yourself, stay home. Do what you can, just make one trip to the store, get what you need. It was difficult. It was always on my heart and my mind of, how can we stop this? And there was just no end. Even today, we see the increase here in 2022, it’s starting to increase again. So, we’ve just got to stay on guard, protect ourselves every day.
DELLINGER: Now, as Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, did you ever have the opportunity to shelter in place?
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HILL: I should have, [00:50:00] but as everyone, all the employees stayed home with the exception of, say, our facilities, GSA Department, they pretty much came in and sanitized the building every day. Our Food Distribution had to come in. So, I really, I just came to work, every morning. But once I got home, we just did what we could. I stressed to my wife, just one of us needs to go to the store, give me a list, or if she goes, get the stuff, come home. We’ve got to stay sheltered. And it was tough. Nothing going on for two years, as far as softball, basketball, I mean, it was tough. Real tough.
DELLINGER: Since you were leaving the home and you were coming to work and you were out, what were some of your personal safety measures? [00:51:00]
HILL: Like I said, hand sanitizer, you had to use that almost daily, any time you come in contact. I’m the type of person that, hey, I’ll shake your hand, or kind of give someone a hug and pat on the back. That was tough. Shawn and Second Chief, he said, “Chief, you’re real approachable, but you’ve got to protect yourself.” It was tough. Had to wear a mask every day, regardless of where you went. Because there was some events I had to attend, but I had to make sure to take all the safety measures, stay your distance, wear your mask. It was tough. It was very tough.
DELLINGER: At the beginning of the pandemic, or at least in 2020, do you remember what made you realize the severity of the virus? Like what really drove that home for you?
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HILL: Oh, [00:52:00] when you actually start seeing some of the citizens, most definitely the elders, getting COVID, and actually seeing one pass away. Because that was on my mind, every day. When are we going to see the first person pass away? There was some citizens that did that I didn’t know personally, but I will say, I’m gonna go forward a little bit to November and December, Mr. Bible, the president of our college, had tested positive. And he had called me. He didn’t get on a Zoom call that Monday and he says, “Chief, he gonna go to the hospital, I believe I’ve got COVID.” And he was in there Saturday, he did text me said Saturday that he was coming home, and to receive a call that [00:53:00] Sunday morning to say that he passed away [clears throat]—
DELLINGER: Yeah. Very hard. Very hard. And I’m sure his—I know that that wasn’t the only call that you would have received with that type of information. Let me ask this, given your leadership as Chief of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation and this horrendous devastation that that COVID caused to both human life and the economy, what has been the biggest challenge or challenges you have faced in your effort to keep the Muscogee (Creek) Nation in operation?
HILL: I guess the challenges would be for me, it [00:54:00] was not meeting in person. I’m the type I like to conduct business in person, but I will say, I guess I’m the first principal chief that when I came in office, I didn’t immediately put my cabinet in. What I did do was open all the positions up, all thirteen. I had 136 applications and interviewed eighty-one, because I had several that applied for two or three positions. And I probably spent almost a whole month interviewing, trying to put all my cabinet in place. And I
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guess that was one of the things I wanted to see what other individuals out there that had the experience that I could possibly see, which it did. It gave me an idea on if this person was selected, but I did interview other people that may be good in other positions. I guess, [00:55:00] in the meantime, I was still trying to put my cabinet in place, but also trying to conduct business with the people that was in acting positions. And that was pretty difficult because some that I did appoint, nominate, didn’t get voted in, so I had to start over, because I definitely wanted everyone in place to carry forward and move our nation forward. But I think we did the best we could on what we had. Like I said, during that time when the pandemic hit, how are we going to service our citizens? We did do a food drive, and that was kind of, I don’t want to say difficult, but still trying to be protected while doing all that [00:56:00] you kind of went from day to day, month to month. Once we received CARES funding, we had to meet in person, majority, and I made sure we had the conference room. I hardly ever stayed in here. I’d come in here, I’m an early person, I get here at 7:00, office don’t open till 8:00, so I’m in here 7:00 till about a quarter till eight, and I’d go in the conference room, which we call that our war room, that’s where we had to make all the decisions. So, just trying to sit down, put a plan in place, what we need to do moving forward. I can’t really say, there were challenges, but you learn by your—and I can’t say mistakes, either. We just kind of learned every day on what we need to do, just trying to strategize, [00:57:00] put a plan in place what we need to do. That was a tough question. [laughs]
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DELLINGER: Well, that was a good answer. That was a good answer. Chief Hill, what is your knowledge and understanding about COVID-19, especially its effect on the human body if it’s contracted?
HILL: It’s been difficult. If you don’t mind, I want to move forward to November. Second Chief had called me said, “Chief, I got tested positive.” He actually got tested here, we both did. Once he got tested positive, I had to send him home. At that time, it was fourteen days, I believe. But it wasn’t after that until December, I got tested positive. Like I said, I still had to attend some meetings that we [00:58:00] needed to attend. When we received the vaccine, Second Chief and I got tested that morning, went to Sapulpa clinic where we’d seen the first doctor, get the shots, and went back to River Spirit, got tested again, and so, we were both negative. The next day, I think we had to go to a county commissioner in Oklahoma City, I got tested that morning, because you had to show your records that you tested negative. Once I came home, I started driving back and I started getting a headache, and I thought maybe it was just my glasses I’d been wearing every day. So, I got home, asked Monica, I said, “Hey, where’s your thermometer?” And she knows, because when she got asked, I very seldom go to the doctor. So, she knew once I asked if I had the thermometer, she took my temperature and it was, I’m thinking like 101, [00:59:00] 102. So, she immediately called Mr. Terry, told me to take some medicine, in which my fever was still there in the morning, so they took me to the hospital. But it affected me different than what it did Second Chief. Second Chief was probably sick for two days, but after that he was fine. But I was in the hospital for probably over ten days. Went in, got the infusion, come home probably two days later,
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my wife got it. So, we both had it at the same time. But it affected me differently because it got into my chest, I had what they call broken glass, or whatever. It got into my lungs. My O2 was down, my oxygen was down. So, it affects everyone different. I don’t know how to explain, but at that point in time, by midsummer, you just hear of each individual citizen getting COVID. That was really tough to take.
DELLINGER: When you did the monoclonal antibody treatment, was that brand-new when they gave that to you?
HILL: It was. I think Second Chief received the first one when it first arrived. Because it just so happened that he received it, probably, a day or two after we received the infusion. But it was new. I knew when we received the vaccine, Shawn and I was trying to figure out what do we do, who do we give them to? So, our first thought was the elders, the workers, the employees, the front-line workers and the elders. He really stressed for me to take it first, but I [01:01:00] said, “Shawn, we have frontline workers, we have elders that needs it first. As soon as they get it, if there’s any left, I will.” He said, “Well, you’re the Chief of the Nation, my job is to keep you healthy, so you need to take it first.” It was tough. It was a tough decision to make at that time, because I felt that we’re seeing elders getting COVID, we’re having frontline workers who’s out there every day. So, I had other ones to take it first, but I had taken it. I know Shawn was getting pretty upset with me. He said, “You need to take it.” So, to see that to actually happen to people, to get the COVID, that was always in the back of my mind, what are we going to do to prevent this? I feel we did the best we could.
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DELLINGER: Now, were you in the hospital here in Okmulgee?
HILL: Yes. [01:02:00] I was in Okmulgee. Shawn didn’t want me to tell anyone, or Jason Salsman, my secretary of press, said not to tell anyone because you didn’t want to, I want to say, alarm anyone. Kind of kept it quiet. Because everyone was at home working from home anyway, except myself, Second Chief, we normally came to the office, and my
chief of staff, just a handful. I was in there for three days, I went home, but my fever broke again, so came back. Because I stayed here two days by myself and Monica got it, my wife, so we were both in the same room in two different beds. And I think I was in the hospital for a little bit over ten days.
DELLINGER: Oh, so Monica, she had to stay in the hospital as well? [01:03:00]
HILL: Yes. It was right during Christmastime, too. So, we didn’t have Christmas until January. I would say I got it worse than what she did, but we both had it. I had to get shots twice a day in my stomach for my blood thickness. For some reason, Shawn was curious, so my doctor, Wanahena , was real curious too, especially on what happened with Mr. Bible. He had a blood clot, I think. Best I know, he had a blood clot which caused his death. That was a concern to me. Shawn and Dr. Wanahena wanted to check. So, I think your average is supposed to be four hundred or less, [01:04:00] your D-dimer is what they call it. Mine got up to sixteen hundred. So, it started going down after I received the shots, and the day before I was supposed to go home, everything looked
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good, so they put me on a pill to take. So, I took that for two days, and the day before I was supposed to leave, they wanted to check my D-dimer again, well, it jumped up to twelve hundred overnight. So, I went back to the shots in my stomach. And that was concerning to them that everyone was worried about the oxygen level being low that, I guess, with me and their research, because once I did all the—I was teasing Mr. Terry that I was a guinea pig, which they did a lot of research on me. I had to sign some papers to release some of my records, [01:05:00] which I didn’t feel bad about doing that. If it was going to save lives, I was for that. But it did. It brought to their attention that other than their oxygen, they have to check their blood thickness, their D-dimer. As of now, it’s been average under a hundred or so. So, it’s been good. It didn’t go good for my stomach. My whole stomach was purple with those shots. But it’s something that needed to be done.
DELLINGER: Now, do you feel like you fully recovered? We have people now, today, that have long-term COVID is the term they’re using. Do you feel like you’re fully recovered or are you continuing to have issues?
HILL: No, I really haven’t had any issues. I would say, if I’m guessing, ninety-eight percent fully recovered. I know my daughter, my oldest daughter, really has a hard time still tasting to this day. [01:06:00] She tested positive, she got COVID in November, a month before I did, and even to this day—like I said, it affects everyone different. I have some other friends, kinfolks that are still affected by that. They’re on an oxygen tank. I had to take a tank home, myself, at home to use. But I feel that I have fully recovered. I
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know I’ll get in trouble with Shawn, but they had a fundraiser basketball game which I got out there and played. I didn’t play the full four quarters, but I did the best I could. I feel that I have. I do a lot of yard work, and I guess just staying active maybe helped that. Once I was tested positive, we had a lot of honey-do stuff to do at the home, [01:07:00] so I guess, like I said, just moving, staying active, probably helped me the most.
DELLINGER: Now, Chief Hill, so you are vaccinated and which vaccine did you receive?
HILL: Pfizer.
DELLINGER: Did you have any side effects?
HILL: No, just my soreness in my shoulder. Like I said, once I got the shot, went home, we redid the whole floor in our living room and the little office space, so I guess I worked the soreness out. The second one I received; it didn’t really affect me that much. I think I just got a slight fever, but after that, it didn’t really affect me at all.
DELLINGER: Have you been boosted?
HILL: Yes. I’m actually scheduled next week to get my third one.
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DELLINGER: Okay, very good. How do you think Muscogee (Creek) Nation leadership—and I mean as a whole not, [01:08:00] just you as an individual but as a whole—has performed throughout the pandemic?
HILL: Oh, the pandemic, I would say that I’m very proud of the health department. I feel that we’ve been a step ahead of the state. I know when we did talk to Shawn on the state of emergency that we did that about probably a week before the state did, which the IHS,
Admiral Watts, has been real good to work with. And he even complimented that Creek Nation pretty much led the way on the health side. Once all the vaccines was offered to the employees, the citizens, we were still receiving that, and I know Shawn had mentioned to me, we had a meeting to see if we’d be interested in offering it to everyone. So, I think the same weekend we held ours at the Tulsa fairgrounds, [01:09:00] and actually, the same day, Cherokee Nation offered it, and also, Osage. And I think just that weekend, Shawn had mentioned that there was over, I want to say, twenty-one hundred, probably, that was offered, just that one day to non-natives. So, we always did what we could to help the surrounding communities and the State of Oklahoma. So, that was the report I got from Admiral Watts, that he always felt that Creek Nation led the way in the health side.
DELLINGER: Very good. I’m going to ask you a question now on a more personal note. So, throughout the pandemic, and especially in 2020 and into 2021, obviously you were dealing with a lot of stress, [01:10:00] and I’m sure personal emotions with the things
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that were happening here in the Muscogee Nation. How did you, at the end of every day, nurture and care for yourself and be ready to get up the next morning and attack again?
HILL: That’s a tough one. I don’t know if I ever did. Like I said, after I went home, just sit down and rest, especially during the summertime. I always tell Shawn and Second Chief, once I get on my mower, I’ve got a little bit over eight acres, that’s where I feel like I relax, just doing yard work and just get out there. But I’m still thinking. Even though I’m mowing, I’ve still got stuff going through my mind, what are we going to do tomorrow, what can we do? And I don’t know. Probably [01:11:00] just sitting down and relax as much as I could. But it was still in your mind on what’s tomorrow going to do? Always thinking what are we going to start off doing tomorrow? So, I don’t know if there was really a time to relax. Like I said, my way relaxing is playing with the kids or, like I said, 2020, you couldn’t go anywhere, so it gave us chance to mow, go around the pond where grandkids go out there and fishing. That’s what we did. I guess that would be one way of relaxing when the grandkids and just our family was over, just go out there and just fish around the pond. You couldn’t really go anywhere, and I encouraged them not to go anywhere, so everyone came to the house, we fixed hamburgers, hot dogs outside, and I guess that was just another way of relaxing.
DELLINGER: That sounds great. So here in Oklahoma currently, [01:12:00] and in the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, we have been in this what I’m calling a COVID lull for a few months now. But what are your thoughts about COVID-19 ever completely going away?
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HILL: I don’t know if it will. I think it’s kind of like the flu. That’s why I talked to Mr. Terry, because him and my wife, my wife’s a nurse, so they got that language where they can talk in medical terms. And so, I’m just sitting with Shawn one morning, I said, to me, COVID came like a big ball, like the flu did where it started taking people’s lives when it first arrived, but to me, it’s just like the COVID now is just diluted. You’re still going to get it like the flu. I don’t think it’s ever gonna go away. It’s going to come like the flu. [01:13:00] Because to my understanding, when the flu first hit us here in the United States, it was kind of like the COVID. It just got real bad where people were dying of the flu. I think COVID’s going to be here for a long time. It’s going to be here. I see it, to me personally, I’m not a medical person, but I see it being like the flu. You’re going to get it.
DELLINGER: Yeah. Well, at this time, are you engaging in life that is more similar to the life you had prior to the COVID-19 pandemic?
HILL: It’s getting there. But with the rate of it is now, I mean it’s starting to increase a little bit within the last week or so, [01:14:00] I think life has gone back to normal. I actually get to have the first festival this year. 2020 and 2021, we didn’t get to have a festival, but this year, we’re still planning on it, we’re having it and it’s this month. We’re anxious to—that’s our nature, being Native American. We want to get out. We want to gather. I will say it’s kind of going back to what it used to be. But also in the same sense, we still have to protect ourselves. You still see some, my sisters still wear a mask. My mom will, too, every now and then. But I think everyone is just taken all precautions
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now. You still don’t know. If it’s a big gathering, enclosed, some still wear a mask. It’s just kind of the way life’s going to be now.
DELLINGER: Yeah. [01:15:00] Chief Hill, at this point in your administration and work, what are you the most proud of?
HILL: You know it’s been said, you’ve always got some, I don’t want to say doubters out there, but people that question, well, “What did you do the last two years?” And we kind of touched on it, number one, we had to protect the citizens. But in the meantime, I think one of the things I did want to fix was no one’s answering the phone, no one’s calling back. That’s one of the things I encourage the managers and the cabinet members, those are things I want to eliminate, the things that was a concern. Even throughout 2020, I listened to one of my staff here at the nation, we implemented maternity leave for the mothers. I [01:16:00] also did the buy-back. Because that’s one of the things that my former Chief of Staff, Greg Anderson had mentioned, September, October, it’s almost dead around here because everyone’s trying to take their leave, so we did the buy-back system for employees. You’ve got some employees that’d just rather come to work. I was the same way, just didn’t really have vacation, going anywhere, so we implemented a buy-back system where people could sell their time back. And we built a safe space building, built the PPE building, and also did the meat processing plant. So, there’s things that, I guess people don’t see what we actually did. Purchase the six-hundred-acre ranch. There’s just different things that we were able to do. I’m going to press forward with the master plan that Chief Floyd had, or some we might have to alter, [01:17:00] because we
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grew, even with the Supreme Court ruling. The Lighthorse Department, the Attorney General’s office, District Court, our Children and Family Services, those four departments that we have just grown due to results of the Supreme Court. So, there’s a lot of things that’s happened in between that people may not recognize that. I’m just so thankful for the cabinet that I have in place. It’s more or less a group effort. To just kind of give an example, in a meeting I had one cabinet member say, “Hey, I need to ask Chief, FEMA said that they want to give us three thousand masks.” Well, Jason questioned this individual, cabinet member, said, “Well, what do you think Chief is going to say?” Because my whole thing was, what’s the Nike symbol? What does it mean? [01:18:00] Well, just do it. So that’s been my motto. That’s what Jason told him, “Well, what do you think Chief’s going to tell you?” “Just do it.” He said, “Yeah.” So, decisions like that that I’m putting on the cabinet members to make, because I always relayed back to when I worked at Nordam, if my directors had to make all the decisions, why does he need me? So, that’s the kind of thing I let them, you make decisions like that. Those are things that I always felt that, if that’s decisions I can make at Nordam, I don’t want my director being bothered by it. So, I always tried to use the same concept as that, of if this is a decision you can make, just move forward. If we fail, we’re going to learn by our mistakes, so we just grow from there. But there’s just different things like that that I feel comfortable with the cabinet members making. [01:19:00] I think there’s other areas, that we’ve definitely improved communication. Pre-COVID, I was able to go to different departments, which during the COVID, you couldn’t. I couldn’t visit the departments like I wanted to. Everything was virtual. The Head Start and the childcare, they had their Halloween and Christmas on virtual, so me and Second Chief got on the Zoom. We
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weren’t in-person but we was there with them. And just different things like that I would say, it was your challenges of meeting everyone. That was one of the things that I really liked, the former owner of Nordam, Ray Siegfried, he would go to every department, he would pretty much know every employee. And that’s the point I always want to get to, is
I want to know everyone that [01:20:00] works for Creek Nation. It’s tough. It was tough during COVID. You couldn’t do that. I always liked going to, when we had meetings at River Spirit, we’d spend the night there, and not being in my normal clothes, I would have jeans, my baseball cap, and the employees enjoyed coming up and visit. That’s one of the things, they said I’m real approachable, that I can talk to them. Just because I’m Principal Chief I’m no different than anyone else. I’m the same person I was before. So, that’s always one of the key things, keep that in mind. I definitely always liked to listen to the employees and the citizens. You meet a lot of different citizens out there, too.
DELLINGER: All right. As Muscogee, we know that Muscogee ancestors experienced [01:21:00] pandemics. They suffered and endured and survived multiple pandemics. And something throughout this COVID-19 pandemic that on occasion I have thought about and I have wondered about is, in thinking about our ancestors and these experiences that they had with pandemics, what might they say about the efforts of today’s Muscogee leadership and Muscogee people to contend with the COVID-19 pandemic and ensure the stability and the longevity of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation? Do you have any thoughts about that?
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HILL: Well, I would hope the ancestors think I’m doing good, that we’re doing good as a whole. I know there’s technology and the medical [01:22:00] things that they didn’t have back then that we have now. But I also know we had a lot of citizens that did not take the vaccine because they figured it was something that the government was giving to us like
they did back then. It’s pretty tough for citizens to trust the government because you didn’t know back then what they was giving us. That’s why, nowadays, we have Creek citizens that are doctors, that are lawyers, who are educated to know that if it’s good or not. And so, hopefully, I’m hoping that the ancestors think that we’re doing the best that we can to prevent any more loss. Because I know they [01:23:00] had hard times back then, especially on the Trail of Tears, the way they struggled, what they sacrificed. I just hope things that we did here at the nation as a whole, that we made our ancestors proud.
DELLINGER: And, likewise, I think sometimes, too, I question sometimes, too, I guess in thinking about our future generations, because the things that we do now, of course, impact our future generations, what memories are they going to have, or what memories can we hope they’re going to have about us, their ancestors, and how we dealt with the COVID-19 pandemic?
HILL: That was one of the questions, or statements, that me, [01:24:00] Second Chief, Mr. Terry, all of us made to cabinet is, the decisions that we’re having to make now is really going to impact our future generations. So, we definitely want to set the foundation for them. The things we do now, you don’t know, it could happen in twenty or thirty years from now, what can they take from what we did? What can they learn from what
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we did? So, hopefully, it made a big impact on the way business is going to be conducted, the way we’re trying to preserve the language, the culture, the history, tradition, that the future generation takes that on and takes it to the next level. And that’s one of the things that, as principal chief, that I made several statements before [01:25:00] even, at the inauguration, I always want to acknowledge the former chiefs. Because, now, I know what they went through. You’re not going to please everyone, working hand in hand with National Council. Because I always felt like they set the foundation. Chief Cox set the foundation for Chief Beaver, Chief Ellis, Chief Tiger, Chief Floyd, Chief Fife. I felt like they set the foundation. So, to me, I feel that responsibility. I need to set the foundation for the next former chief that’s coming up, and for the future generations. So, it’s a lot on your shoulders.
DELLINGER: All right. Well, Chief Hill, we’re down to our last two questions. I want to ask [01:26:00] you, we’re going to continue to think about our future generations here, and our citizens today, but what words of wisdom or advice can you give to today’s citizens and future generations about surviving and living with a global health and economic crisis such as the COVID-19 pandemic?
HILL: Advice. You know, my stepdad gave me good, not advice, but a quote he had told me before that, the four things that was given to us by the Creator was the land, water, air, and fire. He said that’s the four things Creator gave it to us and he said those are the four things we need to protect. Those are the four things that’s going to be taken away from us. It took [01:27:00] me awhile to think of what he was trying to tell me is, the land
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that was given to us, that’s how we farm, we protect the land. The fire that’s given to us, that’s how we cooked our food. We dance around the fire in ceremonial ground. He said, traditionally, that’s the fire that’s in your heart. He said the air that was given to us is the air that we breathe and we have to protect air, the pollution, he said, we’ve got to do what
we can. And the water, that’s what nourishes us to drink, that’s what we use with our food, and those are things that, he said the water is going to be taken away from you. And you see all that. The land was kind of taken away in the late 1800s, come here in Oklahoma, 1906, and had another land run, they took that land away, and the water rights, and just different things that he had mentioned, [01:28:00] I guess to listen to your elders. Because my kids see that now, my daughters, things I went through trying to teach them when I was growing up. As parents, you don’t know anything but now that they’re parents, they see it. So, you always have to listen to the guidance from your elders because they lived that. They’ve done that before. Especially when you see the generation like my mom, the way she grew up, like during the Depression time, growing up through, every ten years, something’s changed. So, that’s kind of a tough question.
DELLINGER: Can you say again the name of the gentleman who gave you that advice?
HILL: Oh, my stepdad was Art Powell, Arthur Powell. He was from the Hickory Ground, which like I said, you always [01:29:00] see in movies, they say words that you don’t know what they were trying to say, but after you think about it, you see what their knowledge was. Like I said, I’m in the middle of writing all the letters that I received from Mom, in which that’s my great-grandfather right there, there’s Chitto Harjo, and
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Grandfather Charley Coker. Those are things they’re fighting for. Someone asked me—I didn’t get to finish on economics. You have to look at to see what’s going to better the Nation, like I said, for the future generation to be stable, what’s going to stay there. I know working in aerospace, I always had to look, what do we use? We use the water, the [01:30:00] air, someone’s always going to get sick, so medical and hospital. I always tried to look at the things that we use now, those are things that’s going to keep us moving forward, oil, gas, water, like I said, medical. There’s always going to be things like that that’s coming up. So, I always try to look in that type of economic development. The food. We built a meat processing plant. So, that’s different. You just have to look at different economic developments. I know our main one is the casinos, but the casinos, we have, I think 121, 122 in the State of Oklahoma. So, it’s going to tilt where it’s just, you can’t have any more. So, you always have to think, what else can you bring other revenue? We’re always having to look at what other revenue source we can bring. So, that’s the only thing I would encourage the younger generation on the way, [01:31:00] what economic development we know is going to be stable that will be here to help provide service and support the citizens. And when I always mention on Charley Coker and Chitto Harjo, you see the issues that they were fighting for. That’s always in my mind because I was asked, it’s been awhile, two or three years, if you had three wishes, what would it be? And one of them I definitely wanted, I would like to go back in time to see what they was going through. The things that I see now, with the knowledge and experience of now, what could help back then? Not only back in the 1900s, but it in the 1800s. Just things that go in my mind, [01:32:00] what would be one of your wishes? I would like to go back and see what—I would like to go around with them, you know?
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DELLINGER: Right, yes. Okay. Well, Chief Hill, as we wrap things up here, is there anything else that you would like to say or share today?
HILL: What’s been on my mind is, like I said, I always refer back to Chitto Harjo and Charley Coker. It’s strange, the things that they were fighting for back then, 113 years later, just so happens that I’m in office and protecting the sovereignty of our nation. That will be one of the biggest things for the future generation, as well, protect what we have. That’s [01:33:00] one of the biggest goals here, I think, for any chief, even the former chief in front of me. You have to do what you need to do to protect the nation, the citizens fighting for their rights. We were the first. That’s one of the quotes that Chitto Harjo had mentioned in 1906 to the Senate in Tulsa was, when Columbus came, he said, “Who did he first see?” He said, “He saw us. He didn’t discover us, we discovered him. We were the first ones here.” And just protecting and honoring the treaties that they had to govern. We were here first. Even though I’m still Muscogee (Creek) by blood, I’m still Oklahoman. So, that’s one of the things I encourage decisions we have to make here is what’s best for Muscogee (Creek) Nation and Oklahoma. I don’t know. [01:34:00] I don’t know what else to add.
DELLINGER: All right. Well, this has all been wonderful and mvto, thank you so much for, again, taking time out of your schedule, and thank you, too, for your service during what really has been unprecedented and just horrific times, very difficult times. Thank you for your service.
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HILL: Thank you. I appreciate it. Mvto. END OF INTERVIEW
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