Darrell Proctor, II, Interview
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Created: Thursday, May 11, 2023 - 10:00 |
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Summary:
An interview with Muscogee (Creek) Nation citizen Darrell Proctor, II.Description:
An interview with Muscogee (Creek) Nation citizen Darrell Proctor, II. A downloadable transcript may be found by link: Darrell Proctor, II. This interview has been indexed through the Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History Center's Oral History Metadata Synchronizer system at the University of Kentucky. For an indexed copy of the video, please follow the external link found in the bar on the right of this page.
Transcription:
The Muscogee (Creek) Nation
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program
“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Mr. Darrell Proctor, II
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: February 8, 2022
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is February 8, 2022, and I’m at my home in Tulsa, Oklahoma, interviewing Muscogee citizen Mr. Darrell Proctor II, who is at his home in Hanna, Oklahoma. This interview is being performed remotely due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. I am performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled “The Twenty-First-Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19.”
Mr. Proctor, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be here with me and to do this interview. We’re going to start with some questions about your personal life and your background. And so, let’s begin with, what is your tribal town and clan? [00:01:00]
DARRELL PROCTOR II: My tribal town is Weogufkee, and my clan is Deer. DELLINGER: Okay. And where you born, and where did you grow up?
PROCTOR: When I was born, my family at the time was staying in Bixby, Oklahoma, and I was born in Tulsa, and I think that right before I turned one, my family moved back to Hanna, back to where my mom and my dad are from. So, we moved back here, and this is where I’ve grown up my entire life, so from everything I remember has been down here in Hanna. And I went to school here at Hanna from pre-K to twelfth grade, and still
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here. Well, my family’s still here, so I’ve been here for quite a while, but this is all I know.
DELLINGER: Right. We talked about that: your family’s got some deep, [00:02:00] deep roots there in Hanna. Can you explain, to someone who maybe doesn’t know where Hanna is located, if someone asked you, where’s Hanna, how would you explain where Hanna is on the map? (laughs)
PROCTOR: On the map. (laughs) Yeah, I get asked that a lot. When I go to classes in Okmulgee, a lot of people I meet will ask me where I’m from, and I’ll tell them Hanna, and they have no idea where that’s from, so I’d have to use reference points. And so, I would say, “Do you know where Eufaula is?” And sometimes they say no. “Do you know where Henryetta is?” And normally, they’ll say yes, and so I’ll say about fifteen miles south of Henryetta, or I think it’s about eighteen miles west of Eufaula. And I always say, “If you go to Hanna, you don’t get there on accident.” You have to make a point to go there. It's a dead end after you hit Hanna, so that’s the best way I can describe it. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay. [00:03:00] Now, Mr. Proctor, who are your parents, if you’ll share their names? And you’ve already mentioned that they grew up in Hanna, but will you just share a little bit about your parents?
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PROCTOR: Yeah. My mom is—her maiden name was Robin Berry before she married my dad, so now she’s Robin Proctor. She grew up in Hanna. She was raised here as well, where actually what we live on is some of her dad’s land. He lives right down the road. My grandparents do. So, she’s been really active in the community as well with Hanna. Also, even though she’s not Creek, she’s had a lot to do with growing up, like we would do Challenge Bowl with Creek Nation, and [00:04:00] a lot of times, she was our sponsor. So, she’s take care of things, and she’s been among Creek people for a long time, and a lot of people know her.
And I mentioned to you that she’s treasurer at our school, treasurer for our association and for our church, and then also she does taxes on the side. And so, she’s always busy but also helping out with the community. If she finds out somebody’s in need, if she founds out, even if it was a death in the family or something, she makes a point to say, let’s take them some food. And so, she always has shown that love and how you have to treat people with respect and let them know you care about them. And she doesn’t do it for pats on the back or thank you; she just does it out of the goodness of her heart, and so she’s taught me and my sisters that, [00:05:00] and so we’re very thankful for having that, growing up like that.
And then my dad is Darrell Proctor. He’s also from Hanna. He grew up here in Hanna. I don't know if you know where Vernon is, but he grew up there, I guess, which is just right down the road from Hanna, I mean literally a couple of miles. It basically is Hanna, but his family had land there, so he and his siblings and most of his aunts and uncles were raised there. And then sometime later, they moved just down the road into Hanna, into Hanna city limits, and so he grew up there. He graduated from Hanna High
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School, just like my mom, and they’ve been together since then. And as he’s grown up, he's been active within our church, which is [00:06:00] Weogufkee Indian Baptist Church. He serves as a deacon, and not only that, but he enjoys helping other churches out when they need help, whether it is with different services or different funeral, things like that. So, he’s always taught me also on that side to help people any way you can. It may not be cooking food, but it may just be being there for somebody and helping out in any way you can.
Then he also serves on the Muscogee (Creek) Nation National Council on the McIntosh district seat A, and I don’t want to say what year he’s started, but he’s been doing it for quite a while. And currently I—let’s see. Yeah, I forget what term this is for him, but anyway, he’s really done a lot to help out the nation. Again, there’s been plenty of times—he doesn’t do it for thank yous or anything; he just enjoys helping people too, [00:07:00] and so I come from a family that loves to help people and loves to care for people, and that’s just the way it is. (laughs) That’s just how they are. It’s in their DNA, I guess, so I’ve been very blessed to growing up with that, a family like that.
DELLINGER: That’s wonderful. Who are your siblings?
PROCTOR: So, I’m the youngest of my siblings and I. My oldest sister is Kelsey Proctor Two Bears. She works at the Okmulgee clinic as a physician’s assistant. And then the second-oldest sister which is Amberly Proctor, and she works also at—not at the clinic, but she works with the administrative side of the health system, and so she works over there. So, like I said, [00:08:00] my entire family just seem like they’re always—on my
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Proctor side, there’s a lot of people that’s working for the tribe. But yeah, those are my siblings.
DELLINGER: Okay. Will you share a little bit about who your grandparents are, and please say their names?
PROCTOR: Okay. Yeah, I’ll start on my mom’s side. My grandmother’s name is Patricia Berry. Her maiden name was Spear, Patricia Spear Berry. She was born and raised in Hanna. And then my grandpa is James Berry, and he was raised in Hanna. I think for a few years when he was probably around ten or so, I think his family moved out to California just for a few years, but they came back, and they’ve been here since. So, [00:09:00] they were both well known in the community. Hanna used to be a lot bigger than it is now, but people always remember them.
And I think I told you, my grandmother was the superintendent for Hanna school for a number of years, so again, she was always showing that love of just wanting to help out the school because we don’t have very many kids at all, but she wanted to see everyone succeed and wanted everyone to do well. That’s what she wanted to see, not just with her—because all my cousins went there, but she didn’t just want us to succeed; she wanted everyone to. And even the Creek students that were there, she knew the tribe was offering assistance in any way to help Creek students. She always tried to push that on citizens that were going to the school.
And my grandpa was the bus driver for fifty years. I think he quit right before it was his fiftieth anniversary of driving the school bus, [00:10:00] and I believe his dad
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drove the school bus too, way back before he did. And by doing that, he got well known in the community with Muscogee people and non-Muscogee people. He’s just very well known. He’s a farmer too, has cattle, would always grow watermelons. And so, they’re
just very heavily—been heavily involved with Hanna and the people of Hanna. Then my dad’s mother is Minnie Proctor Cannon. I mentioned earlier my dad was from Vernon. That’s where she grew up. I think at an early age, she went to Haskell. I think she was fifteen or sixteen, so she went to Haskell. I forget what; she did something with cosmetology. [00:11:00] I’m not sure exactly what she did, but she worked in Tulsa for many years, and just here recently, due to her declining health, she’s had to move in with us, and so we’re taking care of her now, and we’re getting to know her a lot better. And she’s been teaching me a lot as far as family tree, family history on the Proctor side and what she remembers, so it’s been really good.
My entire family, we’re all very close, close with my parents and close with my grandparents, and we all enjoy being around each other. And some people say that’s unusual, but we just enjoy (laughs) being around our family.
DELLINGER: All right. What year did you graduate from high school? PROCTOR: May of 2019.
DELLINGER: Okay. And [00:12:00] so, after high school graduation, where has life taken you, up to this point?
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PROCTOR: In the fall of 2019, after I graduated high school, I enrolled in the Instrumentation Engineering Technologies program at Oklahoma State University Institute of Technology in Okmulgee and started in the fall. And we’ve been going ever since. They do it in trimesters, so we’ll go throughout the year, and I believe this is my eighth trimester, and my last one will be in the summer. And for that trimester, we’ll be doing an internship with whatever company we choose. Mine happens to be with Kimberly-Clark in Jenks, and so I’ll be doing that for this summer. So, I’ve been busy with that ever since then. I’ve been really focusing on that [00:13:00] and been really enjoying it.
DELLINGER: Great. Have you given thought to, after graduation, where you think you’d like to find employment and settle down?
PROCTOR: Yeah. I’m really hoping that I’ll enjoy this job, and hopefully they’ll enjoy me working there, and then I’ll get to stay on because they always say, There’s no guarantee that we’ll keep you, but if you do well, we’ll keep you. So, I’m hoping, since after the internship, that’ll be my last trimester, I’ll graduate, and then I’ll just be ready to work. If I enjoy it there, I’d like to stay there if I can and just because that area’s a good location for me. And I mentioned earlier that I’m close to my family; I enjoy staying involved with our church and then other churches [00:14:00] and then also staying near my friends. That’s just a good location for me, and so I’m hoping—I don't know what will happen, but hopefully it’ll work out, and I’ll stick around there at least for the near future after I graduate.
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DELLINGER: Okay. Now, I know that you are a Muscogee language speaker. You’ve been learning the language. How old were you when you made this decision that you wanted to learn the Muscogee language?
PROCTOR: I was nine years old, and my two older sisters had really gotten involved with learning Creek, and a lot of that was through Challenge Bowl, like I mentioned earlier. There’s always the language portion you have to learn. And I did that too. I think I probably was around nine, I really started getting involved. And I had known basic words from my [00:15:00] family. They’d teach us. My dad would teach us things, or my aunts, and then when we would study for Challenge Bowl, my dad would go through the—he can’t speak fluently, but he knows how it sounds, and so he could tell whenever we pronounced something wrong. And I’m sure at the time, it annoyed me, but he would say, “Say it right. Say it this way. Say it that way,” and now I look back and thinking, Oh, I’m glad he did that, because like I said, he’s been around it his entire life, and he knew how it’s supposed to sound.
Also, a member of our church, her name’s Rosemary McCombs Maxey, and she’s been a language—probably around the same time, back when I was nine, probably 2008, 2009, she started hosting immersion camps at her house, and she did that because she [00:16:00] knew she couldn’t get help from the tribe or funding because she had a lot of non-Muscogee people wanting to learn, and she wanted everyone to be able to benefit from that. And so, she would open up her home. People would come from all over, all over the United States, come stay with her, just friends that she’s made, and she always
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invited my sisters, and so I would just show up just because they were going. And actually, my sister Kelsey, I think, did a lot of family projects with Rosemary, and they actually did a project over the role of Muscogee women in Muscogee churches, and there’s a documentary—I’ve never seen it—and it’s at some university. I can’t remember; Emory maybe, something. But anyway, when I started kind of getting involved with language, they had been involved with it for a while.
And so, I just kept going year after year. We’d have the summer camp like that, and we’d [00:17:00] just learn as much as we can, although at the time, when I was young, I didn’t care that much about it, the learning, because it was always, I wanted to play the games they were going to have, things like that. Oh, we’re going to go outside and play. Well, I was more kind of focused on that. But as I got older, I went to Muscogee (Creek) Nation language camp back in 2015, and up to that point, I knew a little bit about language, and I just wanted to go and learn more. And I met some other new people that had the same kind of desires I did of wanting to be fluent like that, and I always knew I wanted to; it’s just I never put in the hard work to try to do it.
And really, at the beginning of the pandemic, which was in 2020, is when I really kind of put it in my mind of, [00:18:00] up to this point, yes, I’ve been learning, but I haven’t been trying as hard as I can, and so we were home. There was a two-month period where we didn’t leave Hanna at all because I was doing school online. Whoever was working at the time would be able to bring groceries home, things like that, so I was just here, and so I used that opportunity to really focus on wanting to learn the language.
And I was also part of the Muscogee Nation Youth Council, and a friend and I, Jay Fife, we were both asked to teach a beginning Muscogee class over Zoom because
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everyone was in the same boat; we couldn’t go anywhere, and so we would host that two or three times a week for about eight-week period. And by doing that, that kind of opened up a lot of [00:19:00] other, I guess, communication with other people because they would put them on YouTube or Facebook, and people would watch those. And so, I got to meet new people because of that, and they would say, Hey, I know you. You’re the one that taught Creek on Zoom. And of course, I’m thinking, How in the world do they know me? And that was how.
And so, it was definitely helpful, and that kind of kick started that really desire to try to do my best to learn, and so when the pandemic first got here, I would choose that opportunity to try to get in contact with other fluent speakers and see if we could safely meet and try to learn. And I learned a lot since then. So, when you say, when did I decide in my mind I wanted to learn, it’s really been within the last two years when I’ve gotten serious about it. But that’s the short version [00:20:00] of my journey here. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Mr. Proctor, why is it important for you to become a Muscogee language speaker?
PROCTOR: I can remember my dad speak about other people in our community, people I knew or people I had never gotten to meet because they had already passed on, like his grandma and some of his uncles. And he would always say, “Man, they could really speak Creek,” and that always, him just saying that, sticks out in my mind. And because I’ve been asked before, Why do you want to learn it? Okay, so if you learn it, what are you going to do with it? And that always sticks out in my mind of my dad saying that,
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and he still does it, of people I may not be aware of, people from Hanna, and I’ll say, “Can they speak Creek?” And he’ll go, “Oh, yeah, they can.” But I don't know if it’s just my dad’s approval [00:21:00] of that, because he has high respect, I think, for people that can, and even though he can’t speak, he’s always really had high respect for people that can. And so, hearing him describe people as that from a young age always sticks out in my mind. I don't know.
And I think that kind of had a lot to do with me wanting to learn and put even a little more effort into it than my sisters did, because they were ahead of me for a while, and then they went off to college, kind of getting on with their lives and everything, and they kind of gotten out of it. But I wanted to stick with it, and that always sticks out in my mind of my dad saying that. But then also just because I think it has a lot to do with my family history, and so my grandma, that was her first language was Muscogee, and [00:22:00] all of her siblings, so it had a lot to do with who I am. And I feel like if I can learn, I feel like I can have a deeper connection with family members I never even met before because they’ve gone off.
And then also, as I’ve gotten older and become more involved with our church and different churches in the area, where the language is still spoken, and they’ll preach in Creek, or they’ll sing in Creek, and I’ve really been able to—because I see the people all the time, they’ve really encouraged me. And now I can talk to them in my language. I’ve heard some people say before, Well, is it practical? Is the Muscogee language practical? And I believe it is because it’s still being spoken by people. It’s not a dead language; it’s still living, and so I just [00:23:00] want to be able to do my part, try to learn, because I know as long as I’m here, as long as I’m living, as long as some of my
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other friends are living, I know Creek will be spoken. It may not be fluently, but it will always be spoken because that’s what we do now. We greet each other in Creek, and we converse as much as we can. But yeah, that’s a good question. (laughs)
DELLINGER: You know, I should’ve said this to you at the beginning of the interview, but at any point during the interview, if you want to speak in Muscogee language, that would be fantastic. Don’t feel like you have to. I’m just saying, if you’d like to. I’ve also heard through the grapevine that you are a wonderful singer (Proctor laughs) in the Muscogee language. I’m going to let you off the hook though today. I’m not going to make you do that here (laughs) during our interview. But I may ask you to do that at some point for me. [00:24:00]
Now, I know you already mentioned this at the beginning of the interview, but will you mention again the church that you belong to?
PROCTOR: Yes. I’ve been a member at Weogufkee Indian Baptist Church since 2009, and I’ve been going there since my parents—my dad was originally from there. His grandma was a woman’s leader there, and so he grew up there. My mom was from First Baptist in Hanna, but after they got married and after they moved back to Hanna, they’ve always taken me and my sisters there.
DELLINGER: Now, with this church, do your family ties begin with your parents, or do they go beyond that?
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PROCTOR: Yeah, I think they go beyond that because I believe it was right before my dad was born, [00:25:00] his grandma I mentioned, she was heavily involved with the ceremonial grounds, which was Weogufkee ceremonial grounds, and she had converted to Christianity, and so she began going to church at Weogufkee. And from then on, she went from being a leader at the grounds to a leader in the church. Like I said, she began taking—some of her kids were already grown, but the ones that she was still raising, in addition to these grandkids that she was going to take care of, my dad and his siblings, she began taking them to church all the time, and that’s all my dad knows is going to church there.
But now recently, I’d say since honestly probably 2010 or so, my mom’s [00:26:00] sister and her kids began coming. They’re not native, but they saw that welcoming love that our church had, and they’ve enjoyed coming. And then around 2015 or so, another sister and her family started coming, my mom’s sister, and then the past couple of years, my grandparents started coming, my mom’s parents. And then after that, the last other set of cousins I have and sometimes their parents, they’re coming now, and they’re all members. I think that’s awesome because I think people get the wrong idea sometimes that just because it’s a Creek church, you have to be Creek, and that’s not the case. The church is for everyone. Being able to go to church on Sundays, I look over here, and I see my dad’s family, and I look over here, and I see my mom’s family, it’s really special.
DELLINGER: Yes. Now, what are some of the [00:27:00] responsibilities that you’ve taken on at the church?
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PROCTOR: Like I said, from an early age, with my dad being the deacon at the church, he’s always had the most responsibilities of taking care of the yard. If something messes up, normally him and my uncle, they’re going to be the ones to try to fix it, whether it’s
something to do with the building itself, or you know, we have to do this, do that. We have to go clean up the yard, burn this, burn that, burn trees, just whatever it might be. And then if my dad had somewhere to go, something to do to help out another church, I would go with him, and he would always make me do things. And at the time, I did not like it. When I was really young, it was taking up offering, getting the collection plate and just walking around. [00:28:00] But of course, I didn’t like that. I didn’t like having to do that. (laughs)
And then as I got older, people saw that in me. Once people see you can do something, they’ll keep asking you to do it, and so as I got older, that was just kind of my job. Oh, you’re going to take up offering. Or when we’d have different preachers at our church, dad would say, “Go get them a water,” just simple tasks like that, but he instilled that in me of, if there’s something you can do, you better do it. And then as I got older, as a teenager, I always liked to sing, but no one ever knew it. (laughs) It was actually at the language camp back in 2015, one of my other friends, he had led a song, and so I thought, Well, if he can do it, I can do it, and so I just did it, and [00:29:00] not realizing what I was doing, (laughs) most of the speakers over there know my family because they’re from Hanna. There was three or four of them from Hanna, and so whenever we get back from camp, they’re telling my mom how good I did, and then they’re letting everybody know. And I came back to church that Sunday, and I still don’t know how this happened,
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but I mentioned Rosemary; she came up to me and said, “I want you to lead this song,” but as far as I know, she didn’t know. No one told her. So, that has always been (laughs) a mystery to me that she just came up to me and said, “I want you to lead this one.”
From then on, like I said, people have known I can sing. And even then, when I first started, I would get really nervous about it. I didn’t want to, just kind of shy, but I’ve heard preachers say before, if God gives you a gift, if God gives you a talent, you better use it because if you don’t use it, He can take it away from you, [00:30:00] and so now that’s kind of the mentality that I have now of, well, no reason then being nervous or embarrassed about it. It’s something I enjoy doing; just do it. And so, now as I’ve been going to other churches, visiting other churches, I get asked a lot too from these people that I highly respect, these elders that can preach in our language, and now they’re calling on me to lead a song and a prayer, things like that. It doesn’t bother me now. I enjoy doing it. It’s fun. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, that’s fantastic. When you’re not working on your education or engaged with your work at the church, how do you enjoy your free time? Do you have any interests or hobbies that you engage with?
PROCTOR: Yeah. [00:31:00] I know one thing is, again, just to do with language, over the course of the pandemic, as I said, I’ve got in communication with some other people I hadn’t met before, and up until like maybe last year, I’d only seen them through a computer screen. But we would meet all the time and meet during the week, and we would practice Creek. No one was fluent on the calls, but we would do our best to just
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converse, and that’s what it was; it was intermediate conversational sessions in Muscogee. And so, during the pandemic, that was something I really looked forward to because I didn’t have to teach; I didn’t have to do anything. You could just go on there and talk, and of course, when you don’t know these people, there’s plenty to talk about. You can ask them questions. You get to know them. And so, that was something I’ve enjoyed doing. That’s died down a little bit since everything has gotten [00:32:00] a little busier. I know the pandemic hasn’t died down, but I feel like people’s gotten busier, and so we haven’t done that as much.
But another thing I think I mentioned to you last week was, again, just being close with my family, close with my cousins because we all live just really close to one another. Back in the fall of last year, well, last summer actually, my grandpa got sick, and he’s still not in the best health, so my grandmother would need a lot of help taking care of him, and so a lot of our parents would go down there to help them. And since they were going, we would just congregate at my grandparents’ house. And then we had went to a church camp, played volleyball, and we realized, Oh, we really like to play volleyball, so the church got a net, and then we’re like, Well, we don’t want to just play at church; let’s just take it [00:33:00] to our grandparents’ house, and so we did. And then for most of the (laughs) fall season, we were outside pretty much every night because we’re literally a minute down the road. We would meet down there and play for an hour, and that really got me closer with my cousins than we had been in a couple years. So, again, I just enjoy hanging out with my family, and other Muscogee friends that I have, I enjoy spending time with them.
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And any time they need help with anything, like yesterday—you mentioned singing—I was asked by the Muscogee Nation princess. She said she’s going to host an event, and she’d like me to do the invocation song and prayer, and so said, “Of course, I’ll do it.” And she told me their reason in having this event, and so there’s plenty of times like that of [00:34:00] they’re going to do something; they just need a little help. It might be with food, so they’re always saying, “Ask your mom if she can make some food. Ask her if she could make some cookies.” Then they’ll ask me or my sister—she can sing too. She can sing really good, and so it’s either me or her. We’ll both get asked, and my sister was a past Creek Nation princess too, and so that was a big talent of hers was to go around, people would ask her to sing.
And so, within my friend group that I have of Creek people, anybody needs help, we’ll help. A lot of them are from the grounds, but if I’m by the church, a lot of times they’ll come, and we’ll get to just hang out at our church when we’re eating on our Fourth Sunday, things like that. We can just sit around and laugh. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Right. Which of your sisters is the singer?
PROCTOR: Amberly.
DELLINGER: Okay. [00:35:00]
PROCTOR: Yeah, she was a princess—I forget the year. I believe it was about four years ago maybe, three, four years ago. She was the Creek Nation princess, and in the
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following year, she was the Miss Indian Oklahoma, so she’s really good at what she does. She’s a really good speaker and then singer. She wouldn’t admit it, but she is.
DELLINGER: Yeah, those are a few great honors. But that’s a lot of work too, to receive those honors. Well, I’ll tell you what; mvto, thank you for sharing all these things about yourself and your life there in Hanna. I think now we’ll go ahead and move on to some [00:36:00] questions that pertain to your experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic. So, at this time, the United States, we’re now two years into this COVID-19 pandemic. When in 2020 did you first hear about COVID-19, and how did you first hear about it?
PROCTOR: Let’s see; when did I first hear about it? I mentioned one of my friends, Jay Fife, he’s a student at Yale University, and so he had a—I don't know what you would call it. He brought a bunch of students from his school, down to Oklahoma, and he was going to show them around the Creek Nation. [00:37:00] It was a project he was doing with his school, but he was going to show them a lot of what the Muscogee Nation is all about, and so he had an evening where they were going to cook traditional food and everyone just to gather together and get to know one another, but he asked me to sing and sing some songs. He wanted them to be exposed to Muscogee singing, and before we went there, I can’t remember exactly where I’d heard about the virus, but I can remember talking about it with my mom. And she said, “Man, all those kids are coming from Yale, so they might be sick,” and of course, I thought it’s not true. No one’s going to be sick. Whatever.
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So, we went through with that, and I believe that was the beginning of March. Then, we went through that [00:38:00] very next week, and it seemed like within a week, it was getting just a lot worse and worse and worse, and I can remember going to church, and it was our last time we had church that year, or well, for that time. We hardly had anyone at church. People were getting scared. And I was going to go visit another church, and I wasn’t going to shake people’s hands, but that just seemed so disrespectful in Muscogee community, so I went over there, and I thought, Well, I think I’m going to have to, and I did. And there was a lot of people. The church I visited was Thewarle Indian Baptist Church, and there was a lot of people, and again, no one was worried about the virus.
But that was the last Sunday we had church because after that, things were shutting down. My school had closed down. [00:39:00] They were going to go strictly virtual, and so the reality of it really hit, and it really hit hard. It was hard to deal with, especially because, again, we couldn’t go to church. We said, No, we need to stay home. We couldn’t go see any friends. There was just that fear of the unknown because it was unknown. And as the summer kept going, I think it was in May, we started going back to church. We saw that, well, the pandemic hasn’t gotten too bad, and I think the only reason we thought that was because it was hardly in Oklahoma at the time. And then I believe around July, it really hit Oklahoma, more specifically Creek people, and so between myself, my siblings, and my parents, we all know quite a few [00:40:00] Creek people, and we were just getting news all the time that someone was passing away. It was basically like every day, we were hearing something, especially those different churches.
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I mentioned there was a lot of people at Thewarle at that time. They were gone. Now they’re gone. There’s some people gone now because of this pandemic. And it was hard to deal with, and really, when everyone started passing away like that, that really kick started my wanting to get even more involved with language, just kind of like that, Yeah, I wanted to do it, but now I have to because everyone’s passing away. I actually had an uncle pass away from it that September. Of course, it was sad losing him, but the rest of my family has been okay. People have had it, but [00:41:00] everybody’s doing okay now. But seeing from when it started, and we had no idea what COVID-19 was, to the summer when it got really bad, it was just unbelievable. In ways, it was kind of like a nightmare almost because nothing’s been the same ever since. We constantly have to be careful. There’s constantly, we have to wear a mask. We have to be careful if someone’s sick. And it’s just been hard to deal with, but I think we’ve adapted and adjusted, and I think whatever continues to happen with the pandemic, I think we’ll get through it.
DELLINGER: In the early days of the pandemic, I think most of the world was feeling [00:42:00] the shock of COVID-19, and we started hearing these words, “lockdown” and “shelter in place.” And I want to ask, how did those words specifically make you feel?
PROCTOR: Yeah, whenever I would see the “shelter in place,” it really upset me because from about the middle of March to the middle of May, I was home doing schoolwork virtually and of course, helping out. There was always plenty of things to do because I was helping out my grandpa with his cattle, things like that, but when I saw that, and they were talking about shelter in place, it made me mad because I thought, I’ve been doing
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that for two months. I wish everyone would’ve done that, and maybe [00:43:00] we wouldn’t have to do this. And it was really depressing because I thought, Man, this is still going to continue on?
There were times I wanted to see some of my friends, and we couldn’t. And they knew that, and I knew that, and there were times they would safely meet up or something, but I had to be thinking of my parents, my grandparents. And yes, that’s the right thing to do, but at the same time, it hurts because you want to be around people. You want to go to church. That was another thing was just, I thought, Oh, we still can’t go to church. We still can’t go anywhere. We can’t go see anybody. And a lot of my family that I was used to seeing all the time, we just didn’t see them, just didn’t talk to them for months, and so it was really stressful, I guess. And so, whenever I would see things [00:44:00] like shelter in place, it was upsetting, more than anything.
DELLINGER: Having such a tightknit family, such a close family, as well as your church family, were there times, or have there been times throughout the pandemic where you’ve had to be there for your elders, checking on them, taking care of them? What’s that been like for you throughout the pandemic?
PROCTOR: Yeah. When everyone started getting sick that July, there was about, gosh, probably five or six preachers—they were elder preachers—that had passed away from COVID-19, in addition to all the other members of these different churches [00:45:00] that I’d gotten to know these people. Didn’t know them well, but to me, I just respected them so much because they were our language keepers, our song keepers. They were
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leaders in the church, so I just highly respected them, so whenever people started passing away, I just kept in contact with just a couple of people and just say, “Do you know of anyone else that’s sick?”
But at the same time, I was able to do some of these things in our language, so I was able to speak our language and ask questions while also checking up on them and checking up on different churches in the area because a lot of those people, my family don’t know because these churches go from Bixby to Henryetta to Dustin, Ryal, [00:46:00] Wetumka, Sasakwa, Seminole, just all these different churches that I enjoyed visiting. And so, I would just try to keep in contact with one or two people and just say, “How’s everybody doing?” And unfortunately, a lot of times, it was, Well, I heard that so-and-so has it, when you heard it. And then the next sentence would be, Well, they’re on a ventilator, and gosh, they didn’t know just what was coming.
And it did, and so that was really something I did because I really cared about these people, and checking up on them was just something I wanted to do, not just with church people who I know; it affected all Creek people. I know there was some ceremonial people and just in general, fluent speakers that passed away. Jay and I would talk about that a lot, and he’d give me news like that. It really affected both of us like that [00:47:00] because these people have had impacts in our lives, and from what they’ve told us, we’ve impacted theirs too. So, it was a really hard year.
DELLINGER: Yes. During the first year of the pandemic when there were still so many unknowns about COVID-19, what was your plan of action or your safety measures to stay safe from the virus, both at home and when you left the house?
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PROCTOR: Another reason we were really strict on not going out of the house unless you have to or, well, not being around people unless you have to was because my dad, with his job, they told him, If someone gets sick in your house, [00:48:00] you’re going to have to be gone for two weeks, and that’s just something he couldn’t do. He couldn’t jeopardize that, and they had plans in place where I think one time, they bought a washer and a dryer; they bought a fridge. They bought things, took it to their work so that in case someone did get sick, or they were exposed, that they could just go there and stay at work so they could continue to work.
And so, it was very serious, and my dad always told us just kind of sternly, “You need to stay home.” And so, that was the biggest way of staying safe because we weren’t going anywhere. There wasn’t necessary need to wear masks because we were just staying home. And then of course after, when people thought the pandemic was getting better, then it got bad again. Then, of course, when we were going out, and my school had [00:49:00] in-person meetings, then you’d wear masks, so then you would always wash your hands, always try to stay distant from people. But at the very beginning though, I think it was just staying home was the big thing we did.
DELLINGER: Did you yourself ever go out and do any shopping for the household?
PROCTOR: At that time, I didn’t, but when my classes started again, I think I did it about once a week because Walmart has the pickups, pickup orders or whatever. My mom would just get on there and tell us, “What do you want?” And she’d write it down and
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order it, and I’d just stop and pick it up. So, that was the extent of shopping that I had to do, but I think that was the best case because I probably wouldn’t do well, going off a shopping list. (laughter) [00:50:00]
DELLINGER: Well, the reason why I asked, I was just curious what it was like—because you’re down there in a more rural area—and I was just wondering what it was like for your household whenever you guys did have to go out and try to buy your household needs, especially at the beginning of the pandemic. There was kind of some craziness at the beginning. Did you guys experience that down there?
PROCTOR: Somewhat. I think somewhat. When the pandemic started and we had to stay home, my sister was working; my dad was working. My mom’s always working whatever of the reports she has, things like that, and I was busy with school. In the evenings, they said, Well, let’s just go walk. We have to drive over four miles of dirt road to get to Hanna, to get to the city of Hanna, [00:51:00] and so we have plenty of places to walk, and so they said, Well, let’s just go walk, and so for really most of that year, we would just go and walk. Even if we weren’t saying anything, even if we weren’t talking, we just would walk. And of course, a lot of time, we was just talking about how the day was, and of course mine was boring because I’m like, “Well, I didn’t really do anything. I’ve been home all day,” but then we would talk about different things.
I know there’s still different things going on with the nation, and we would talk about that, and just we would laugh. But that was helpful too because even with just my immediate family, it kind of helped us get a little closer together because we thought,
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Well, if we’re going to be home, let’s try to start being somewhat healthier, so let’s just keep walking. Even when we cooked things, let’s try to think of more healthy decisions, things like that. But I don’t think we were too impacted though as far as [00:52:00] groceries go.
DELLINGER: Okay. Mr. Proctor, what is your knowledge and understanding about the COVID-19 virus, including, if you can, where you’ve heard it came from and its effect on the human body if contracted?
PROCTOR: Okay. I mentioned my sister’s a physician’s assistant, and so any time I don’t understand something, any medical terms, any medical illnesses, whatever, I know I can ask her, and she can put it into better words for me to understand it. And so, a lot of the things I know about the virus has just been from her, and she’s kept it real with us. Like whenever someone would get [00:53:00] sick, like I mentioned earlier, our uncle passed away. Him and his wife contracted the virus, and she gave it to us real. She said, “Hopefully, they’ll be good, but they may not,” and that was the case. He passed away. And so, she would tell us different stories she had heard about the virus, and people who get it, what it can do to your body. We’ve known people that have gotten it from different churches, and they’re still on oxygen tanks from it. They used to walk fine, and now they can hardly walk. It just took a huge toll on them. Death wasn’t just the worst-case scenario in there. It could still be bad. Even if you did survive it, it could leave you with some just [00:54:00] bad issues.
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I had another uncle that had it, and I believe he still deals with some respiratory problems. And I know it’s different for everybody, and some people have gotten it, and didn’t do hardly anything to them. That’s another thing my sister always told me: it’s different for each person. It really has a different effect on everybody, and you’ll find similarities, but it could be completely different from other people.
I don't know exactly where it came from. I’ve heard different stories. I’m sure you have. But I don't know. Especially with all these variants coming about, it seems like there’s always one every three or four months, and they just keep mutating, I guess, the viruses. [00:55:00] I’m not too educated about the virus itself, just other than you got to be careful, and you have to watch out. That’s about all I know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Again, going back to the early days of the pandemic, what did you observe to be the initial response of younger people to COVID-19?
PROCTOR: I think the initial response of younger people in general, just from what you could see on TV and what I could see from different people I knew, they kind of went about as if nothing was out there. They lived kind of normally, which was fine. I think I know [00:56:00] people would get mad at that because I remember seeing on TV, they would show a bunch of younger people getting off on spring break and going to Florida for spring break, and they were just talking about, Why would they do that? Why would they do that? There’s this virus going on.
And it made me mad at first too, but I thought, Well, they’re probably not putting other people at risk as far as their family goes, whereas we do. We’re around them. Like I
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said, we’re close to our family. A lot of them have underlying conditions, health conditions, and so we have to be careful, whereas other younger people my age may not have to deal with that. They may not be around their parents or their grandparents a lot, but in my case, I was, and so I would just compare myself to those people. And it made me mad too because I thought, Well, I’d like to go out and do what I want [00:57:00] too, but I couldn’t.
DELLINGER: Okay. Have you been vaccinated against the COVID-19 virus?
PROCTOR: Yes, the first two was Pfizer. I did that last February, I believe, so it’s been about a year. And my entire family’s vaccinated. I’m thankful for that. And then I also got my booster, I believe back in December, and that was the Moderna. The vaccine, I know that’s always been a controversial topic, and I know going to school, a lot of people I go to school with, they’re very against it. But I never speak up or anything because I think, Oh, that’s what you want to believe, that’s okay. [00:58:00] I think what I saw is I’ve heard people say, Well, how do you know the vaccine even helps? People are, especially now with this new omicron variant, they’re saying, Well, vaccinated people are getting sick too. What’s the point? But I know here recently, I’ve had several family members get it, but they were vaccinated, and they’re okay, whereas a couple years ago, what we were seeing was people were getting it, and they were dying before the vaccine was here.
And I mentioned earlier that we were hearing about people, just about every other day, someone had passed away that we knew or knew of. And after the vaccine was here,
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it was almost like it just stopped, and we weren’t hearing of those COVID-related deaths. And I believe that was because of the vaccine, because I know a lot of Muscogee people did get vaccinated, and I was thankful for that. I still am, and [00:59:00] I will say this: my grandma just had the virus last week, but she was vaccinated, and she did fine with it. Of course, we were worried, but they said, Well, she’s vaccinated; she’s fine. She’s eighty years old, and she had the vaccine, but she’s okay, and so I see that. That’s good enough for me to say you can believe what you want, but I think it helps. And if nothing else, it prevents you from getting extremely sick like we’ve seen in the past from so many people.
DELLINGER: Right. Did you have any side effects from the vaccine?
PROCTOR: If I remember correctly, the first one made me somewhat sick, the first shot, and I had just normal [01:00:00] cold symptoms. And I believe the second one didn’t do anything to me, and then my booster didn’t do anything to me, so no, the side effects definitely weren’t bad at all.
And I actually had COVID in 2020 in that October, and I can remember it was scary getting it because again, it was just unknown. You didn’t know what was going to happen, and I found out later, a long time later, my mom was really worried. Of course, she wasn’t going to let me know that she was worried, but she knew, and everyone knew, but she knew what could happen. We’d heard all those different stories of people of all ages getting it really bad, even death happening, so I know she disclosed to me that she was really worried at that time because that was before a vaccine was here. And I can
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remember I was [01:01:00] scared too, but one thing that always made feel better, my mom, even though she was worried, she kept saying, “It’s going to be all right,” and that was good enough for me to just kind of—and she’s always done that for us since we were kids; she lets us know, “Don’t worry about it.” And she does the worrying herself. (laughs)
DELLINGER: You saying that kind of leads me into my next question. What has it been like for you and your family, watching your older sister working as a PA and really being on the frontlines of the pandemic? How has that been for the household?
PROTOR: It was really rough because my sister Kelsey, she lives in Okmulgee, and the rest of us live in Hanna, [01:02:00] so during that—I can’t even remember—it was probably two or three months ’til we actually got to see her in person, and that was really hard because like I said, I am close to my siblings, and not being able to see her for that long a period, it was just rough. And we knew that there was good reason. She wouldn’t let us see her even if we wanted. We did want to, but she wouldn’t let us. She says, “No, we got to be careful. We’ve got to think of our grandparents. We’ve got to think of our parents,” because she was around it all the time. And throughout the last two years, she never got it. Last two months, December, she actually did get this new variant, but up to that point, she was protected from it; she didn’t get it. And so, we were very thankful for that, especially when we did start seeing her throughout 2020, more towards the end of summer, and we were just thankful that none of our other family members got that very first round of the COVID-19, which seems to be a lot worse than what it is now.
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DELLINGER: All right, well, we are down to the last couple questions of the interview, and so I want to ask you, for future generations of Muscogee, including Muscogee youth, who may find themselves trying to survive a global and economic crisis such as this ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, what words of advice or wisdom do you have for them about living with and surviving such a catastrophic event?
PROCTOR: [01:04:00] I’ve heard my dad say before—he actually said this almost been a year ago—one of his aunts, it wasn’t from the virus, but she did pass away, and he was speaking at her funeral, and he told her family, her kids, her grandkids, he says, “Y’all got to lean on each other. You have to lean on each other for support to help one another out,” and so just the generic encouragement or advice I would give to any future Muscogee people that have to deal with this would be to do that, is you have to lean on one another, because that’s what I’ve had to do. Any times I would get sad, even though I couldn’t see my sister Kelsey during that time, I’d call her, and we would talk for hours, again, talk with my parents, talk with my other sister Amberly, and talking about things is just so helpful. [01:05:00] And even if it’s not your family that you’re close to or if it’s just some friends, you have to lean on other people, or whether it’s people at your church, at your grounds, just people in the community. I think as long as you do that, we can survive anything because right when the vaccine came out, we had heard news of it, and we heard news that the tribe might be disbursing it soon.
I was watching a video, or it wasn’t a video; it’s a movie that was done several years ago, and it’s all in the Muscogee language. The Dawes Commission is what it’s
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called, and right at the end, Jackson Barnett was talking, and he was talking about during the allotment times, having to deal with the Dawes Commission, he was talking about how Muscogee [01:06:00] people got through that. He says, “We made it through that,” and he said, “To this day, we’re still dealing with things, but just like in that time, we made it through that, and we can make it through anything.” And this was back 10 years ago, so when I heard that, it was just really emotional for me to hear that because I started thinking of this vaccine.
And I saw something too of someone, whoever had the first vaccine shot with the tribe, and someone posted on there, Let the healing begin. And that was just really special to me, and so seeing that and hearing those words from Jackson Barnett of, “We can get through anything,” that would be the advice I would leave.
DELLINGER: Mvto. Thank you for those words. Okay, is there anything [01:07:00] else that you would like to share about your experiences with the COVID pandemic?
PROCTOR: Yeah, there would be. I guess additional advice would be, I would hope that no one would allow it to get to a point where a global disaster like that’s been going on in the past two years, don’t let it get to that point to make any decisions. It took that for me to really get serious about learning language. It took that for me to really get serious about trying to learn the language and learn songs and then keeping on these traditions and then teaching other people. It took that pandemic to make me realize how blessed I am [01:08:00] and to really appreciate my family, so I would say don’t allow something like that—do it now, is what I would say. Do it as soon as you can, and appreciate what
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you have because I definitely do appreciate everything I have now, and I’m definitely thankful for all that I have.
DELLINGER: Okay. Mr. Proctor, mvto, thank you again for taking time out of your day to do this interview. Good luck with your final months of your education, and good luck with your future pursuits, your career pursuits, and you take care and stay safe.
PROCTOR: Owano, mvto! (Okay, thank you!)
END OF INTERVIEW
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Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program
“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Mr. Darrell Proctor, II
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: February 8, 2022
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is February 8, 2022, and I’m at my home in Tulsa, Oklahoma, interviewing Muscogee citizen Mr. Darrell Proctor II, who is at his home in Hanna, Oklahoma. This interview is being performed remotely due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. I am performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled “The Twenty-First-Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19.”
Mr. Proctor, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be here with me and to do this interview. We’re going to start with some questions about your personal life and your background. And so, let’s begin with, what is your tribal town and clan? [00:01:00]
DARRELL PROCTOR II: My tribal town is Weogufkee, and my clan is Deer. DELLINGER: Okay. And where you born, and where did you grow up?
PROCTOR: When I was born, my family at the time was staying in Bixby, Oklahoma, and I was born in Tulsa, and I think that right before I turned one, my family moved back to Hanna, back to where my mom and my dad are from. So, we moved back here, and this is where I’ve grown up my entire life, so from everything I remember has been down here in Hanna. And I went to school here at Hanna from pre-K to twelfth grade, and still
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here. Well, my family’s still here, so I’ve been here for quite a while, but this is all I know.
DELLINGER: Right. We talked about that: your family’s got some deep, [00:02:00] deep roots there in Hanna. Can you explain, to someone who maybe doesn’t know where Hanna is located, if someone asked you, where’s Hanna, how would you explain where Hanna is on the map? (laughs)
PROCTOR: On the map. (laughs) Yeah, I get asked that a lot. When I go to classes in Okmulgee, a lot of people I meet will ask me where I’m from, and I’ll tell them Hanna, and they have no idea where that’s from, so I’d have to use reference points. And so, I would say, “Do you know where Eufaula is?” And sometimes they say no. “Do you know where Henryetta is?” And normally, they’ll say yes, and so I’ll say about fifteen miles south of Henryetta, or I think it’s about eighteen miles west of Eufaula. And I always say, “If you go to Hanna, you don’t get there on accident.” You have to make a point to go there. It's a dead end after you hit Hanna, so that’s the best way I can describe it. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay. [00:03:00] Now, Mr. Proctor, who are your parents, if you’ll share their names? And you’ve already mentioned that they grew up in Hanna, but will you just share a little bit about your parents?
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PROCTOR: Yeah. My mom is—her maiden name was Robin Berry before she married my dad, so now she’s Robin Proctor. She grew up in Hanna. She was raised here as well, where actually what we live on is some of her dad’s land. He lives right down the road. My grandparents do. So, she’s been really active in the community as well with Hanna. Also, even though she’s not Creek, she’s had a lot to do with growing up, like we would do Challenge Bowl with Creek Nation, and [00:04:00] a lot of times, she was our sponsor. So, she’s take care of things, and she’s been among Creek people for a long time, and a lot of people know her.
And I mentioned to you that she’s treasurer at our school, treasurer for our association and for our church, and then also she does taxes on the side. And so, she’s always busy but also helping out with the community. If she finds out somebody’s in need, if she founds out, even if it was a death in the family or something, she makes a point to say, let’s take them some food. And so, she always has shown that love and how you have to treat people with respect and let them know you care about them. And she doesn’t do it for pats on the back or thank you; she just does it out of the goodness of her heart, and so she’s taught me and my sisters that, [00:05:00] and so we’re very thankful for having that, growing up like that.
And then my dad is Darrell Proctor. He’s also from Hanna. He grew up here in Hanna. I don't know if you know where Vernon is, but he grew up there, I guess, which is just right down the road from Hanna, I mean literally a couple of miles. It basically is Hanna, but his family had land there, so he and his siblings and most of his aunts and uncles were raised there. And then sometime later, they moved just down the road into Hanna, into Hanna city limits, and so he grew up there. He graduated from Hanna High
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School, just like my mom, and they’ve been together since then. And as he’s grown up, he's been active within our church, which is [00:06:00] Weogufkee Indian Baptist Church. He serves as a deacon, and not only that, but he enjoys helping other churches out when they need help, whether it is with different services or different funeral, things like that. So, he’s always taught me also on that side to help people any way you can. It may not be cooking food, but it may just be being there for somebody and helping out in any way you can.
Then he also serves on the Muscogee (Creek) Nation National Council on the McIntosh district seat A, and I don’t want to say what year he’s started, but he’s been doing it for quite a while. And currently I—let’s see. Yeah, I forget what term this is for him, but anyway, he’s really done a lot to help out the nation. Again, there’s been plenty of times—he doesn’t do it for thank yous or anything; he just enjoys helping people too, [00:07:00] and so I come from a family that loves to help people and loves to care for people, and that’s just the way it is. (laughs) That’s just how they are. It’s in their DNA, I guess, so I’ve been very blessed to growing up with that, a family like that.
DELLINGER: That’s wonderful. Who are your siblings?
PROCTOR: So, I’m the youngest of my siblings and I. My oldest sister is Kelsey Proctor Two Bears. She works at the Okmulgee clinic as a physician’s assistant. And then the second-oldest sister which is Amberly Proctor, and she works also at—not at the clinic, but she works with the administrative side of the health system, and so she works over there. So, like I said, [00:08:00] my entire family just seem like they’re always—on my
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Proctor side, there’s a lot of people that’s working for the tribe. But yeah, those are my siblings.
DELLINGER: Okay. Will you share a little bit about who your grandparents are, and please say their names?
PROCTOR: Okay. Yeah, I’ll start on my mom’s side. My grandmother’s name is Patricia Berry. Her maiden name was Spear, Patricia Spear Berry. She was born and raised in Hanna. And then my grandpa is James Berry, and he was raised in Hanna. I think for a few years when he was probably around ten or so, I think his family moved out to California just for a few years, but they came back, and they’ve been here since. So, [00:09:00] they were both well known in the community. Hanna used to be a lot bigger than it is now, but people always remember them.
And I think I told you, my grandmother was the superintendent for Hanna school for a number of years, so again, she was always showing that love of just wanting to help out the school because we don’t have very many kids at all, but she wanted to see everyone succeed and wanted everyone to do well. That’s what she wanted to see, not just with her—because all my cousins went there, but she didn’t just want us to succeed; she wanted everyone to. And even the Creek students that were there, she knew the tribe was offering assistance in any way to help Creek students. She always tried to push that on citizens that were going to the school.
And my grandpa was the bus driver for fifty years. I think he quit right before it was his fiftieth anniversary of driving the school bus, [00:10:00] and I believe his dad
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drove the school bus too, way back before he did. And by doing that, he got well known in the community with Muscogee people and non-Muscogee people. He’s just very well known. He’s a farmer too, has cattle, would always grow watermelons. And so, they’re
just very heavily—been heavily involved with Hanna and the people of Hanna. Then my dad’s mother is Minnie Proctor Cannon. I mentioned earlier my dad was from Vernon. That’s where she grew up. I think at an early age, she went to Haskell. I think she was fifteen or sixteen, so she went to Haskell. I forget what; she did something with cosmetology. [00:11:00] I’m not sure exactly what she did, but she worked in Tulsa for many years, and just here recently, due to her declining health, she’s had to move in with us, and so we’re taking care of her now, and we’re getting to know her a lot better. And she’s been teaching me a lot as far as family tree, family history on the Proctor side and what she remembers, so it’s been really good.
My entire family, we’re all very close, close with my parents and close with my grandparents, and we all enjoy being around each other. And some people say that’s unusual, but we just enjoy (laughs) being around our family.
DELLINGER: All right. What year did you graduate from high school? PROCTOR: May of 2019.
DELLINGER: Okay. And [00:12:00] so, after high school graduation, where has life taken you, up to this point?
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PROCTOR: In the fall of 2019, after I graduated high school, I enrolled in the Instrumentation Engineering Technologies program at Oklahoma State University Institute of Technology in Okmulgee and started in the fall. And we’ve been going ever since. They do it in trimesters, so we’ll go throughout the year, and I believe this is my eighth trimester, and my last one will be in the summer. And for that trimester, we’ll be doing an internship with whatever company we choose. Mine happens to be with Kimberly-Clark in Jenks, and so I’ll be doing that for this summer. So, I’ve been busy with that ever since then. I’ve been really focusing on that [00:13:00] and been really enjoying it.
DELLINGER: Great. Have you given thought to, after graduation, where you think you’d like to find employment and settle down?
PROCTOR: Yeah. I’m really hoping that I’ll enjoy this job, and hopefully they’ll enjoy me working there, and then I’ll get to stay on because they always say, There’s no guarantee that we’ll keep you, but if you do well, we’ll keep you. So, I’m hoping, since after the internship, that’ll be my last trimester, I’ll graduate, and then I’ll just be ready to work. If I enjoy it there, I’d like to stay there if I can and just because that area’s a good location for me. And I mentioned earlier that I’m close to my family; I enjoy staying involved with our church and then other churches [00:14:00] and then also staying near my friends. That’s just a good location for me, and so I’m hoping—I don't know what will happen, but hopefully it’ll work out, and I’ll stick around there at least for the near future after I graduate.
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DELLINGER: Okay. Now, I know that you are a Muscogee language speaker. You’ve been learning the language. How old were you when you made this decision that you wanted to learn the Muscogee language?
PROCTOR: I was nine years old, and my two older sisters had really gotten involved with learning Creek, and a lot of that was through Challenge Bowl, like I mentioned earlier. There’s always the language portion you have to learn. And I did that too. I think I probably was around nine, I really started getting involved. And I had known basic words from my [00:15:00] family. They’d teach us. My dad would teach us things, or my aunts, and then when we would study for Challenge Bowl, my dad would go through the—he can’t speak fluently, but he knows how it sounds, and so he could tell whenever we pronounced something wrong. And I’m sure at the time, it annoyed me, but he would say, “Say it right. Say it this way. Say it that way,” and now I look back and thinking, Oh, I’m glad he did that, because like I said, he’s been around it his entire life, and he knew how it’s supposed to sound.
Also, a member of our church, her name’s Rosemary McCombs Maxey, and she’s been a language—probably around the same time, back when I was nine, probably 2008, 2009, she started hosting immersion camps at her house, and she did that because she [00:16:00] knew she couldn’t get help from the tribe or funding because she had a lot of non-Muscogee people wanting to learn, and she wanted everyone to be able to benefit from that. And so, she would open up her home. People would come from all over, all over the United States, come stay with her, just friends that she’s made, and she always
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invited my sisters, and so I would just show up just because they were going. And actually, my sister Kelsey, I think, did a lot of family projects with Rosemary, and they actually did a project over the role of Muscogee women in Muscogee churches, and there’s a documentary—I’ve never seen it—and it’s at some university. I can’t remember; Emory maybe, something. But anyway, when I started kind of getting involved with language, they had been involved with it for a while.
And so, I just kept going year after year. We’d have the summer camp like that, and we’d [00:17:00] just learn as much as we can, although at the time, when I was young, I didn’t care that much about it, the learning, because it was always, I wanted to play the games they were going to have, things like that. Oh, we’re going to go outside and play. Well, I was more kind of focused on that. But as I got older, I went to Muscogee (Creek) Nation language camp back in 2015, and up to that point, I knew a little bit about language, and I just wanted to go and learn more. And I met some other new people that had the same kind of desires I did of wanting to be fluent like that, and I always knew I wanted to; it’s just I never put in the hard work to try to do it.
And really, at the beginning of the pandemic, which was in 2020, is when I really kind of put it in my mind of, [00:18:00] up to this point, yes, I’ve been learning, but I haven’t been trying as hard as I can, and so we were home. There was a two-month period where we didn’t leave Hanna at all because I was doing school online. Whoever was working at the time would be able to bring groceries home, things like that, so I was just here, and so I used that opportunity to really focus on wanting to learn the language.
And I was also part of the Muscogee Nation Youth Council, and a friend and I, Jay Fife, we were both asked to teach a beginning Muscogee class over Zoom because
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everyone was in the same boat; we couldn’t go anywhere, and so we would host that two or three times a week for about eight-week period. And by doing that, that kind of opened up a lot of [00:19:00] other, I guess, communication with other people because they would put them on YouTube or Facebook, and people would watch those. And so, I got to meet new people because of that, and they would say, Hey, I know you. You’re the one that taught Creek on Zoom. And of course, I’m thinking, How in the world do they know me? And that was how.
And so, it was definitely helpful, and that kind of kick started that really desire to try to do my best to learn, and so when the pandemic first got here, I would choose that opportunity to try to get in contact with other fluent speakers and see if we could safely meet and try to learn. And I learned a lot since then. So, when you say, when did I decide in my mind I wanted to learn, it’s really been within the last two years when I’ve gotten serious about it. But that’s the short version [00:20:00] of my journey here. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Mr. Proctor, why is it important for you to become a Muscogee language speaker?
PROCTOR: I can remember my dad speak about other people in our community, people I knew or people I had never gotten to meet because they had already passed on, like his grandma and some of his uncles. And he would always say, “Man, they could really speak Creek,” and that always, him just saying that, sticks out in my mind. And because I’ve been asked before, Why do you want to learn it? Okay, so if you learn it, what are you going to do with it? And that always sticks out in my mind of my dad saying that,
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and he still does it, of people I may not be aware of, people from Hanna, and I’ll say, “Can they speak Creek?” And he’ll go, “Oh, yeah, they can.” But I don't know if it’s just my dad’s approval [00:21:00] of that, because he has high respect, I think, for people that can, and even though he can’t speak, he’s always really had high respect for people that can. And so, hearing him describe people as that from a young age always sticks out in my mind. I don't know.
And I think that kind of had a lot to do with me wanting to learn and put even a little more effort into it than my sisters did, because they were ahead of me for a while, and then they went off to college, kind of getting on with their lives and everything, and they kind of gotten out of it. But I wanted to stick with it, and that always sticks out in my mind of my dad saying that. But then also just because I think it has a lot to do with my family history, and so my grandma, that was her first language was Muscogee, and [00:22:00] all of her siblings, so it had a lot to do with who I am. And I feel like if I can learn, I feel like I can have a deeper connection with family members I never even met before because they’ve gone off.
And then also, as I’ve gotten older and become more involved with our church and different churches in the area, where the language is still spoken, and they’ll preach in Creek, or they’ll sing in Creek, and I’ve really been able to—because I see the people all the time, they’ve really encouraged me. And now I can talk to them in my language. I’ve heard some people say before, Well, is it practical? Is the Muscogee language practical? And I believe it is because it’s still being spoken by people. It’s not a dead language; it’s still living, and so I just [00:23:00] want to be able to do my part, try to learn, because I know as long as I’m here, as long as I’m living, as long as some of my
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other friends are living, I know Creek will be spoken. It may not be fluently, but it will always be spoken because that’s what we do now. We greet each other in Creek, and we converse as much as we can. But yeah, that’s a good question. (laughs)
DELLINGER: You know, I should’ve said this to you at the beginning of the interview, but at any point during the interview, if you want to speak in Muscogee language, that would be fantastic. Don’t feel like you have to. I’m just saying, if you’d like to. I’ve also heard through the grapevine that you are a wonderful singer (Proctor laughs) in the Muscogee language. I’m going to let you off the hook though today. I’m not going to make you do that here (laughs) during our interview. But I may ask you to do that at some point for me. [00:24:00]
Now, I know you already mentioned this at the beginning of the interview, but will you mention again the church that you belong to?
PROCTOR: Yes. I’ve been a member at Weogufkee Indian Baptist Church since 2009, and I’ve been going there since my parents—my dad was originally from there. His grandma was a woman’s leader there, and so he grew up there. My mom was from First Baptist in Hanna, but after they got married and after they moved back to Hanna, they’ve always taken me and my sisters there.
DELLINGER: Now, with this church, do your family ties begin with your parents, or do they go beyond that?
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PROCTOR: Yeah, I think they go beyond that because I believe it was right before my dad was born, [00:25:00] his grandma I mentioned, she was heavily involved with the ceremonial grounds, which was Weogufkee ceremonial grounds, and she had converted to Christianity, and so she began going to church at Weogufkee. And from then on, she went from being a leader at the grounds to a leader in the church. Like I said, she began taking—some of her kids were already grown, but the ones that she was still raising, in addition to these grandkids that she was going to take care of, my dad and his siblings, she began taking them to church all the time, and that’s all my dad knows is going to church there.
But now recently, I’d say since honestly probably 2010 or so, my mom’s [00:26:00] sister and her kids began coming. They’re not native, but they saw that welcoming love that our church had, and they’ve enjoyed coming. And then around 2015 or so, another sister and her family started coming, my mom’s sister, and then the past couple of years, my grandparents started coming, my mom’s parents. And then after that, the last other set of cousins I have and sometimes their parents, they’re coming now, and they’re all members. I think that’s awesome because I think people get the wrong idea sometimes that just because it’s a Creek church, you have to be Creek, and that’s not the case. The church is for everyone. Being able to go to church on Sundays, I look over here, and I see my dad’s family, and I look over here, and I see my mom’s family, it’s really special.
DELLINGER: Yes. Now, what are some of the [00:27:00] responsibilities that you’ve taken on at the church?
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PROCTOR: Like I said, from an early age, with my dad being the deacon at the church, he’s always had the most responsibilities of taking care of the yard. If something messes up, normally him and my uncle, they’re going to be the ones to try to fix it, whether it’s
something to do with the building itself, or you know, we have to do this, do that. We have to go clean up the yard, burn this, burn that, burn trees, just whatever it might be. And then if my dad had somewhere to go, something to do to help out another church, I would go with him, and he would always make me do things. And at the time, I did not like it. When I was really young, it was taking up offering, getting the collection plate and just walking around. [00:28:00] But of course, I didn’t like that. I didn’t like having to do that. (laughs)
And then as I got older, people saw that in me. Once people see you can do something, they’ll keep asking you to do it, and so as I got older, that was just kind of my job. Oh, you’re going to take up offering. Or when we’d have different preachers at our church, dad would say, “Go get them a water,” just simple tasks like that, but he instilled that in me of, if there’s something you can do, you better do it. And then as I got older, as a teenager, I always liked to sing, but no one ever knew it. (laughs) It was actually at the language camp back in 2015, one of my other friends, he had led a song, and so I thought, Well, if he can do it, I can do it, and so I just did it, and [00:29:00] not realizing what I was doing, (laughs) most of the speakers over there know my family because they’re from Hanna. There was three or four of them from Hanna, and so whenever we get back from camp, they’re telling my mom how good I did, and then they’re letting everybody know. And I came back to church that Sunday, and I still don’t know how this happened,
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but I mentioned Rosemary; she came up to me and said, “I want you to lead this song,” but as far as I know, she didn’t know. No one told her. So, that has always been (laughs) a mystery to me that she just came up to me and said, “I want you to lead this one.”
From then on, like I said, people have known I can sing. And even then, when I first started, I would get really nervous about it. I didn’t want to, just kind of shy, but I’ve heard preachers say before, if God gives you a gift, if God gives you a talent, you better use it because if you don’t use it, He can take it away from you, [00:30:00] and so now that’s kind of the mentality that I have now of, well, no reason then being nervous or embarrassed about it. It’s something I enjoy doing; just do it. And so, now as I’ve been going to other churches, visiting other churches, I get asked a lot too from these people that I highly respect, these elders that can preach in our language, and now they’re calling on me to lead a song and a prayer, things like that. It doesn’t bother me now. I enjoy doing it. It’s fun. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, that’s fantastic. When you’re not working on your education or engaged with your work at the church, how do you enjoy your free time? Do you have any interests or hobbies that you engage with?
PROCTOR: Yeah. [00:31:00] I know one thing is, again, just to do with language, over the course of the pandemic, as I said, I’ve got in communication with some other people I hadn’t met before, and up until like maybe last year, I’d only seen them through a computer screen. But we would meet all the time and meet during the week, and we would practice Creek. No one was fluent on the calls, but we would do our best to just
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converse, and that’s what it was; it was intermediate conversational sessions in Muscogee. And so, during the pandemic, that was something I really looked forward to because I didn’t have to teach; I didn’t have to do anything. You could just go on there and talk, and of course, when you don’t know these people, there’s plenty to talk about. You can ask them questions. You get to know them. And so, that was something I’ve enjoyed doing. That’s died down a little bit since everything has gotten [00:32:00] a little busier. I know the pandemic hasn’t died down, but I feel like people’s gotten busier, and so we haven’t done that as much.
But another thing I think I mentioned to you last week was, again, just being close with my family, close with my cousins because we all live just really close to one another. Back in the fall of last year, well, last summer actually, my grandpa got sick, and he’s still not in the best health, so my grandmother would need a lot of help taking care of him, and so a lot of our parents would go down there to help them. And since they were going, we would just congregate at my grandparents’ house. And then we had went to a church camp, played volleyball, and we realized, Oh, we really like to play volleyball, so the church got a net, and then we’re like, Well, we don’t want to just play at church; let’s just take it [00:33:00] to our grandparents’ house, and so we did. And then for most of the (laughs) fall season, we were outside pretty much every night because we’re literally a minute down the road. We would meet down there and play for an hour, and that really got me closer with my cousins than we had been in a couple years. So, again, I just enjoy hanging out with my family, and other Muscogee friends that I have, I enjoy spending time with them.
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And any time they need help with anything, like yesterday—you mentioned singing—I was asked by the Muscogee Nation princess. She said she’s going to host an event, and she’d like me to do the invocation song and prayer, and so said, “Of course, I’ll do it.” And she told me their reason in having this event, and so there’s plenty of times like that of [00:34:00] they’re going to do something; they just need a little help. It might be with food, so they’re always saying, “Ask your mom if she can make some food. Ask her if she could make some cookies.” Then they’ll ask me or my sister—she can sing too. She can sing really good, and so it’s either me or her. We’ll both get asked, and my sister was a past Creek Nation princess too, and so that was a big talent of hers was to go around, people would ask her to sing.
And so, within my friend group that I have of Creek people, anybody needs help, we’ll help. A lot of them are from the grounds, but if I’m by the church, a lot of times they’ll come, and we’ll get to just hang out at our church when we’re eating on our Fourth Sunday, things like that. We can just sit around and laugh. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Right. Which of your sisters is the singer?
PROCTOR: Amberly.
DELLINGER: Okay. [00:35:00]
PROCTOR: Yeah, she was a princess—I forget the year. I believe it was about four years ago maybe, three, four years ago. She was the Creek Nation princess, and in the
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following year, she was the Miss Indian Oklahoma, so she’s really good at what she does. She’s a really good speaker and then singer. She wouldn’t admit it, but she is.
DELLINGER: Yeah, those are a few great honors. But that’s a lot of work too, to receive those honors. Well, I’ll tell you what; mvto, thank you for sharing all these things about yourself and your life there in Hanna. I think now we’ll go ahead and move on to some [00:36:00] questions that pertain to your experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic. So, at this time, the United States, we’re now two years into this COVID-19 pandemic. When in 2020 did you first hear about COVID-19, and how did you first hear about it?
PROCTOR: Let’s see; when did I first hear about it? I mentioned one of my friends, Jay Fife, he’s a student at Yale University, and so he had a—I don't know what you would call it. He brought a bunch of students from his school, down to Oklahoma, and he was going to show them around the Creek Nation. [00:37:00] It was a project he was doing with his school, but he was going to show them a lot of what the Muscogee Nation is all about, and so he had an evening where they were going to cook traditional food and everyone just to gather together and get to know one another, but he asked me to sing and sing some songs. He wanted them to be exposed to Muscogee singing, and before we went there, I can’t remember exactly where I’d heard about the virus, but I can remember talking about it with my mom. And she said, “Man, all those kids are coming from Yale, so they might be sick,” and of course, I thought it’s not true. No one’s going to be sick. Whatever.
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So, we went through with that, and I believe that was the beginning of March. Then, we went through that [00:38:00] very next week, and it seemed like within a week, it was getting just a lot worse and worse and worse, and I can remember going to church, and it was our last time we had church that year, or well, for that time. We hardly had anyone at church. People were getting scared. And I was going to go visit another church, and I wasn’t going to shake people’s hands, but that just seemed so disrespectful in Muscogee community, so I went over there, and I thought, Well, I think I’m going to have to, and I did. And there was a lot of people. The church I visited was Thewarle Indian Baptist Church, and there was a lot of people, and again, no one was worried about the virus.
But that was the last Sunday we had church because after that, things were shutting down. My school had closed down. [00:39:00] They were going to go strictly virtual, and so the reality of it really hit, and it really hit hard. It was hard to deal with, especially because, again, we couldn’t go to church. We said, No, we need to stay home. We couldn’t go see any friends. There was just that fear of the unknown because it was unknown. And as the summer kept going, I think it was in May, we started going back to church. We saw that, well, the pandemic hasn’t gotten too bad, and I think the only reason we thought that was because it was hardly in Oklahoma at the time. And then I believe around July, it really hit Oklahoma, more specifically Creek people, and so between myself, my siblings, and my parents, we all know quite a few [00:40:00] Creek people, and we were just getting news all the time that someone was passing away. It was basically like every day, we were hearing something, especially those different churches.
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I mentioned there was a lot of people at Thewarle at that time. They were gone. Now they’re gone. There’s some people gone now because of this pandemic. And it was hard to deal with, and really, when everyone started passing away like that, that really kick started my wanting to get even more involved with language, just kind of like that, Yeah, I wanted to do it, but now I have to because everyone’s passing away. I actually had an uncle pass away from it that September. Of course, it was sad losing him, but the rest of my family has been okay. People have had it, but [00:41:00] everybody’s doing okay now. But seeing from when it started, and we had no idea what COVID-19 was, to the summer when it got really bad, it was just unbelievable. In ways, it was kind of like a nightmare almost because nothing’s been the same ever since. We constantly have to be careful. There’s constantly, we have to wear a mask. We have to be careful if someone’s sick. And it’s just been hard to deal with, but I think we’ve adapted and adjusted, and I think whatever continues to happen with the pandemic, I think we’ll get through it.
DELLINGER: In the early days of the pandemic, I think most of the world was feeling [00:42:00] the shock of COVID-19, and we started hearing these words, “lockdown” and “shelter in place.” And I want to ask, how did those words specifically make you feel?
PROCTOR: Yeah, whenever I would see the “shelter in place,” it really upset me because from about the middle of March to the middle of May, I was home doing schoolwork virtually and of course, helping out. There was always plenty of things to do because I was helping out my grandpa with his cattle, things like that, but when I saw that, and they were talking about shelter in place, it made me mad because I thought, I’ve been doing
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that for two months. I wish everyone would’ve done that, and maybe [00:43:00] we wouldn’t have to do this. And it was really depressing because I thought, Man, this is still going to continue on?
There were times I wanted to see some of my friends, and we couldn’t. And they knew that, and I knew that, and there were times they would safely meet up or something, but I had to be thinking of my parents, my grandparents. And yes, that’s the right thing to do, but at the same time, it hurts because you want to be around people. You want to go to church. That was another thing was just, I thought, Oh, we still can’t go to church. We still can’t go anywhere. We can’t go see anybody. And a lot of my family that I was used to seeing all the time, we just didn’t see them, just didn’t talk to them for months, and so it was really stressful, I guess. And so, whenever I would see things [00:44:00] like shelter in place, it was upsetting, more than anything.
DELLINGER: Having such a tightknit family, such a close family, as well as your church family, were there times, or have there been times throughout the pandemic where you’ve had to be there for your elders, checking on them, taking care of them? What’s that been like for you throughout the pandemic?
PROCTOR: Yeah. When everyone started getting sick that July, there was about, gosh, probably five or six preachers—they were elder preachers—that had passed away from COVID-19, in addition to all the other members of these different churches [00:45:00] that I’d gotten to know these people. Didn’t know them well, but to me, I just respected them so much because they were our language keepers, our song keepers. They were
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leaders in the church, so I just highly respected them, so whenever people started passing away, I just kept in contact with just a couple of people and just say, “Do you know of anyone else that’s sick?”
But at the same time, I was able to do some of these things in our language, so I was able to speak our language and ask questions while also checking up on them and checking up on different churches in the area because a lot of those people, my family don’t know because these churches go from Bixby to Henryetta to Dustin, Ryal, [00:46:00] Wetumka, Sasakwa, Seminole, just all these different churches that I enjoyed visiting. And so, I would just try to keep in contact with one or two people and just say, “How’s everybody doing?” And unfortunately, a lot of times, it was, Well, I heard that so-and-so has it, when you heard it. And then the next sentence would be, Well, they’re on a ventilator, and gosh, they didn’t know just what was coming.
And it did, and so that was really something I did because I really cared about these people, and checking up on them was just something I wanted to do, not just with church people who I know; it affected all Creek people. I know there was some ceremonial people and just in general, fluent speakers that passed away. Jay and I would talk about that a lot, and he’d give me news like that. It really affected both of us like that [00:47:00] because these people have had impacts in our lives, and from what they’ve told us, we’ve impacted theirs too. So, it was a really hard year.
DELLINGER: Yes. During the first year of the pandemic when there were still so many unknowns about COVID-19, what was your plan of action or your safety measures to stay safe from the virus, both at home and when you left the house?
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PROCTOR: Another reason we were really strict on not going out of the house unless you have to or, well, not being around people unless you have to was because my dad, with his job, they told him, If someone gets sick in your house, [00:48:00] you’re going to have to be gone for two weeks, and that’s just something he couldn’t do. He couldn’t jeopardize that, and they had plans in place where I think one time, they bought a washer and a dryer; they bought a fridge. They bought things, took it to their work so that in case someone did get sick, or they were exposed, that they could just go there and stay at work so they could continue to work.
And so, it was very serious, and my dad always told us just kind of sternly, “You need to stay home.” And so, that was the biggest way of staying safe because we weren’t going anywhere. There wasn’t necessary need to wear masks because we were just staying home. And then of course after, when people thought the pandemic was getting better, then it got bad again. Then, of course, when we were going out, and my school had [00:49:00] in-person meetings, then you’d wear masks, so then you would always wash your hands, always try to stay distant from people. But at the very beginning though, I think it was just staying home was the big thing we did.
DELLINGER: Did you yourself ever go out and do any shopping for the household?
PROCTOR: At that time, I didn’t, but when my classes started again, I think I did it about once a week because Walmart has the pickups, pickup orders or whatever. My mom would just get on there and tell us, “What do you want?” And she’d write it down and
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order it, and I’d just stop and pick it up. So, that was the extent of shopping that I had to do, but I think that was the best case because I probably wouldn’t do well, going off a shopping list. (laughter) [00:50:00]
DELLINGER: Well, the reason why I asked, I was just curious what it was like—because you’re down there in a more rural area—and I was just wondering what it was like for your household whenever you guys did have to go out and try to buy your household needs, especially at the beginning of the pandemic. There was kind of some craziness at the beginning. Did you guys experience that down there?
PROCTOR: Somewhat. I think somewhat. When the pandemic started and we had to stay home, my sister was working; my dad was working. My mom’s always working whatever of the reports she has, things like that, and I was busy with school. In the evenings, they said, Well, let’s just go walk. We have to drive over four miles of dirt road to get to Hanna, to get to the city of Hanna, [00:51:00] and so we have plenty of places to walk, and so they said, Well, let’s just go walk, and so for really most of that year, we would just go and walk. Even if we weren’t saying anything, even if we weren’t talking, we just would walk. And of course, a lot of time, we was just talking about how the day was, and of course mine was boring because I’m like, “Well, I didn’t really do anything. I’ve been home all day,” but then we would talk about different things.
I know there’s still different things going on with the nation, and we would talk about that, and just we would laugh. But that was helpful too because even with just my immediate family, it kind of helped us get a little closer together because we thought,
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Well, if we’re going to be home, let’s try to start being somewhat healthier, so let’s just keep walking. Even when we cooked things, let’s try to think of more healthy decisions, things like that. But I don’t think we were too impacted though as far as [00:52:00] groceries go.
DELLINGER: Okay. Mr. Proctor, what is your knowledge and understanding about the COVID-19 virus, including, if you can, where you’ve heard it came from and its effect on the human body if contracted?
PROCTOR: Okay. I mentioned my sister’s a physician’s assistant, and so any time I don’t understand something, any medical terms, any medical illnesses, whatever, I know I can ask her, and she can put it into better words for me to understand it. And so, a lot of the things I know about the virus has just been from her, and she’s kept it real with us. Like whenever someone would get [00:53:00] sick, like I mentioned earlier, our uncle passed away. Him and his wife contracted the virus, and she gave it to us real. She said, “Hopefully, they’ll be good, but they may not,” and that was the case. He passed away. And so, she would tell us different stories she had heard about the virus, and people who get it, what it can do to your body. We’ve known people that have gotten it from different churches, and they’re still on oxygen tanks from it. They used to walk fine, and now they can hardly walk. It just took a huge toll on them. Death wasn’t just the worst-case scenario in there. It could still be bad. Even if you did survive it, it could leave you with some just [00:54:00] bad issues.
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I had another uncle that had it, and I believe he still deals with some respiratory problems. And I know it’s different for everybody, and some people have gotten it, and didn’t do hardly anything to them. That’s another thing my sister always told me: it’s different for each person. It really has a different effect on everybody, and you’ll find similarities, but it could be completely different from other people.
I don't know exactly where it came from. I’ve heard different stories. I’m sure you have. But I don't know. Especially with all these variants coming about, it seems like there’s always one every three or four months, and they just keep mutating, I guess, the viruses. [00:55:00] I’m not too educated about the virus itself, just other than you got to be careful, and you have to watch out. That’s about all I know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Again, going back to the early days of the pandemic, what did you observe to be the initial response of younger people to COVID-19?
PROCTOR: I think the initial response of younger people in general, just from what you could see on TV and what I could see from different people I knew, they kind of went about as if nothing was out there. They lived kind of normally, which was fine. I think I know [00:56:00] people would get mad at that because I remember seeing on TV, they would show a bunch of younger people getting off on spring break and going to Florida for spring break, and they were just talking about, Why would they do that? Why would they do that? There’s this virus going on.
And it made me mad at first too, but I thought, Well, they’re probably not putting other people at risk as far as their family goes, whereas we do. We’re around them. Like I
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said, we’re close to our family. A lot of them have underlying conditions, health conditions, and so we have to be careful, whereas other younger people my age may not have to deal with that. They may not be around their parents or their grandparents a lot, but in my case, I was, and so I would just compare myself to those people. And it made me mad too because I thought, Well, I’d like to go out and do what I want [00:57:00] too, but I couldn’t.
DELLINGER: Okay. Have you been vaccinated against the COVID-19 virus?
PROCTOR: Yes, the first two was Pfizer. I did that last February, I believe, so it’s been about a year. And my entire family’s vaccinated. I’m thankful for that. And then I also got my booster, I believe back in December, and that was the Moderna. The vaccine, I know that’s always been a controversial topic, and I know going to school, a lot of people I go to school with, they’re very against it. But I never speak up or anything because I think, Oh, that’s what you want to believe, that’s okay. [00:58:00] I think what I saw is I’ve heard people say, Well, how do you know the vaccine even helps? People are, especially now with this new omicron variant, they’re saying, Well, vaccinated people are getting sick too. What’s the point? But I know here recently, I’ve had several family members get it, but they were vaccinated, and they’re okay, whereas a couple years ago, what we were seeing was people were getting it, and they were dying before the vaccine was here.
And I mentioned earlier that we were hearing about people, just about every other day, someone had passed away that we knew or knew of. And after the vaccine was here,
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it was almost like it just stopped, and we weren’t hearing of those COVID-related deaths. And I believe that was because of the vaccine, because I know a lot of Muscogee people did get vaccinated, and I was thankful for that. I still am, and [00:59:00] I will say this: my grandma just had the virus last week, but she was vaccinated, and she did fine with it. Of course, we were worried, but they said, Well, she’s vaccinated; she’s fine. She’s eighty years old, and she had the vaccine, but she’s okay, and so I see that. That’s good enough for me to say you can believe what you want, but I think it helps. And if nothing else, it prevents you from getting extremely sick like we’ve seen in the past from so many people.
DELLINGER: Right. Did you have any side effects from the vaccine?
PROCTOR: If I remember correctly, the first one made me somewhat sick, the first shot, and I had just normal [01:00:00] cold symptoms. And I believe the second one didn’t do anything to me, and then my booster didn’t do anything to me, so no, the side effects definitely weren’t bad at all.
And I actually had COVID in 2020 in that October, and I can remember it was scary getting it because again, it was just unknown. You didn’t know what was going to happen, and I found out later, a long time later, my mom was really worried. Of course, she wasn’t going to let me know that she was worried, but she knew, and everyone knew, but she knew what could happen. We’d heard all those different stories of people of all ages getting it really bad, even death happening, so I know she disclosed to me that she was really worried at that time because that was before a vaccine was here. And I can
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remember I was [01:01:00] scared too, but one thing that always made feel better, my mom, even though she was worried, she kept saying, “It’s going to be all right,” and that was good enough for me to just kind of—and she’s always done that for us since we were kids; she lets us know, “Don’t worry about it.” And she does the worrying herself. (laughs)
DELLINGER: You saying that kind of leads me into my next question. What has it been like for you and your family, watching your older sister working as a PA and really being on the frontlines of the pandemic? How has that been for the household?
PROTOR: It was really rough because my sister Kelsey, she lives in Okmulgee, and the rest of us live in Hanna, [01:02:00] so during that—I can’t even remember—it was probably two or three months ’til we actually got to see her in person, and that was really hard because like I said, I am close to my siblings, and not being able to see her for that long a period, it was just rough. And we knew that there was good reason. She wouldn’t let us see her even if we wanted. We did want to, but she wouldn’t let us. She says, “No, we got to be careful. We’ve got to think of our grandparents. We’ve got to think of our parents,” because she was around it all the time. And throughout the last two years, she never got it. Last two months, December, she actually did get this new variant, but up to that point, she was protected from it; she didn’t get it. And so, we were very thankful for that, especially when we did start seeing her throughout 2020, more towards the end of summer, and we were just thankful that none of our other family members got that very first round of the COVID-19, which seems to be a lot worse than what it is now.
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DELLINGER: All right, well, we are down to the last couple questions of the interview, and so I want to ask you, for future generations of Muscogee, including Muscogee youth, who may find themselves trying to survive a global and economic crisis such as this ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, what words of advice or wisdom do you have for them about living with and surviving such a catastrophic event?
PROCTOR: [01:04:00] I’ve heard my dad say before—he actually said this almost been a year ago—one of his aunts, it wasn’t from the virus, but she did pass away, and he was speaking at her funeral, and he told her family, her kids, her grandkids, he says, “Y’all got to lean on each other. You have to lean on each other for support to help one another out,” and so just the generic encouragement or advice I would give to any future Muscogee people that have to deal with this would be to do that, is you have to lean on one another, because that’s what I’ve had to do. Any times I would get sad, even though I couldn’t see my sister Kelsey during that time, I’d call her, and we would talk for hours, again, talk with my parents, talk with my other sister Amberly, and talking about things is just so helpful. [01:05:00] And even if it’s not your family that you’re close to or if it’s just some friends, you have to lean on other people, or whether it’s people at your church, at your grounds, just people in the community. I think as long as you do that, we can survive anything because right when the vaccine came out, we had heard news of it, and we heard news that the tribe might be disbursing it soon.
I was watching a video, or it wasn’t a video; it’s a movie that was done several years ago, and it’s all in the Muscogee language. The Dawes Commission is what it’s
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called, and right at the end, Jackson Barnett was talking, and he was talking about during the allotment times, having to deal with the Dawes Commission, he was talking about how Muscogee [01:06:00] people got through that. He says, “We made it through that,” and he said, “To this day, we’re still dealing with things, but just like in that time, we made it through that, and we can make it through anything.” And this was back 10 years ago, so when I heard that, it was just really emotional for me to hear that because I started thinking of this vaccine.
And I saw something too of someone, whoever had the first vaccine shot with the tribe, and someone posted on there, Let the healing begin. And that was just really special to me, and so seeing that and hearing those words from Jackson Barnett of, “We can get through anything,” that would be the advice I would leave.
DELLINGER: Mvto. Thank you for those words. Okay, is there anything [01:07:00] else that you would like to share about your experiences with the COVID pandemic?
PROCTOR: Yeah, there would be. I guess additional advice would be, I would hope that no one would allow it to get to a point where a global disaster like that’s been going on in the past two years, don’t let it get to that point to make any decisions. It took that for me to really get serious about learning language. It took that for me to really get serious about trying to learn the language and learn songs and then keeping on these traditions and then teaching other people. It took that pandemic to make me realize how blessed I am [01:08:00] and to really appreciate my family, so I would say don’t allow something like that—do it now, is what I would say. Do it as soon as you can, and appreciate what
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you have because I definitely do appreciate everything I have now, and I’m definitely thankful for all that I have.
DELLINGER: Okay. Mr. Proctor, mvto, thank you again for taking time out of your day to do this interview. Good luck with your final months of your education, and good luck with your future pursuits, your career pursuits, and you take care and stay safe.
PROCTOR: Owano, mvto! (Okay, thank you!)
END OF INTERVIEW
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