Jennifer Handsel , Interview
![](https://mvskokenationallibraryarchive.org/system/files/styles/mukurtu_theme_3_2_ratio/private/atoms/video/thumbnails/vimeo-791538980.jpg?itok=Dxo7tC7M)
Image Metadata
Created: Tuesday, May 9, 2023 - 12:30 |
||
Summary:
An interview with Muscogee (Creek) Nation citizen Jennifer Handsel.Description:
An interview with Muscogee (Creek) citizen Jennifer Handsel. A downloadable transcript may be found by link: Jennifer Handsel. This interview has been indexed through the Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History Center’s Oral History Metadata Synchronizer system at the University of Kentucky. For an indexed copy of the video, please follow the external link found in the bar on the right of this page.
Transcription:
The Muscogee (Creek) Nation
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program
“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Mrs. Jennifer Handsel
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: January 7, 2023
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is January 7, 2023, and I am in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at Memorial Middle School, interviewing Muscogee citizen Mrs. Jennifer Handsel. I’m performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation historic and cultural preservation department for the oral history project titled “A 21st Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation against COVID-19.”
Mrs. Handsel, thank you so much for taking time out of a Saturday morning to be here and to do this interview with me. We’re going to begin with some questions about your life, your personal background. And so let’s start with, where were you born and where did you spend your childhood?
JENNIFER HANDSEL: Okay, I was born at Claremore Indian Hospital. But we lived in Kellyville, Oklahoma. I lived there until second [00:01:00] grade, so I would have been about seven, I believe. And then we moved to Tulsa.
DELLINGER: Do you remember anything about being in Kellyville?
HANDSEL: Yeah. I think a good chunk of my memories are from Kellyville, because I remember it was a dirt road for the longest time. I think the last couple years I lived there, they finally paved it. It was my grandma’s house, we lived with her, and it was a stretch of road, and all of her brothers and sisters lived on that road. So each house along that, for about a mile, was, you know, one of her sisters or one of her brothers. So, that’s
1
where I grew up, that’s where I learned how to ride my bike, and all good, fun outside stuff.
DELLINGER: Yeah, great, so you have fond memories of that time, up until seven. And then you came to Tulsa. So, tell me a little bit about life in Tulsa, your childhood here in Tulsa.
HANDSEL: It was a big adjustment, because I always compare it to [00:02:00] I went from Kellyville where there’s, like, coyotes at night, to Tulsa where there’s, like, ambulance sirens at night. So it was a big change to kind of get used to that. And we lived right along Riverside, so that was nice. We still played outside a lot at the time. Just little subtleties that were different.
DELLINGER: Where did you spend your school life here in Tulsa, starting with elementary school?
HANDSEL: The elementary that we finally—when we found an apartment and we started back to school, was McClure Elementary. So I went there, I was third grade when I started, and I finished out there at fifth grade. I graduated and then went on to middle school, which was Nimitz Middle School. And, unfortunately, that school’s not open anymore, but I really liked that school. And then on to Memorial [00:03:00] High School after that.
2
DELLINGER: Okay. I want you to share a little bit, if you will, about your parents. If you’ll just tell me a little bit about each one of them, including their names, where they were from, their occupations, things like that.
HANDSEL: Okay. My mom was Darlene Parkinson before she got married, she became Darlene Tate, and she was from Bristow, Oklahoma. And she went to NSU for college and then did some social work after that. And my dad, he lived in Berryhill, Oklahoma, and his name was John Tate. And for a good chunk of his life he was a brick mason.
DELLINGER: Oh, okay. Now, do you still have your parents with you?
HANDSEL: No, they have both passed away. My mom first in 2003. [00:04:00] Yeah, 2003. And then my dad a few years after that.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, given your Muscogee heritage, where does that heritage come from? Who does that come from?
HANDSEL: I would have to say my aunt overall. My mom was more involved with the church, so I feel like, from around age twelve, thirteen, we spent a lot of time at the church. But then, when I moved in with her after my mom passing, she and my brother became really deeply involved with the more traditional side of our culture.
DELLINGER: Okay. And so, now, were both of your parents Muscogee?
3
HANDSEL: No, my dad wasn’t, so I’m only half.
DELLINGER: Okay. Okay. And what about siblings? Do you have siblings? If so, will you share a little bit about each one of them?
HANDSEL: I have an older brother. There is a fifteen-year age difference [00:05:00] there. His name’s James Parkinson, and he’s a military police officer, I believe. And he was with me, we grew up in Kellyville together. Right as I was born, it seemed like he was getting ready for college, so we didn’t really spend a lot of time together, as much as I did with my younger brother. He’s three years younger than me, and he was named after my dad, so he’s John Tate Jr., but we call him Sonny. My grandma wanted to name him Sonny, so I’ve never referred to him as John, he’s Sonny.
DELLINGER: And do you have a close relationship with your two brothers at this point?
HANDSEL: My older brother, no. He did the genealogy background DNA test and [00:06:00] found out he had a different heritage and kind of went that direction. And so me and my younger brother are much more closer.
DELLINGER: I see. I see, okay. And grandparents, let’s talk about your grandparents. Will you share a little bit about your grandparents? Again, if you can share their names and where they were from?
4
HANDSEL: Okay. My grandma on my mom’s side was Irene Parkinson, and before she was married, she was Irene Felix. And she is from Bristow/Depew. Or, I’m sorry, Bristow/Kellyville. So she grew up there. And my grandfather, who I didn’t know, he passed away in 1977. His name was Noah Parkinson.
DELLINGER: Oh, there’s that name, Noah.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Who we’re going to talk about here in a little bit, we’re going to talk about Mr. Noah. [00:07:00] And so, those are your grandparents from your mother’s side. So did you never know your grandparents from your father’s side?
HANDSEL: On my father’s side, my grandma was Delia Tate, we just called her Dee. She passed away when I was about six, so I do have a few memories of being in her garden. And she grew a lot of vegetables, so I remember going out there and eating everything. But, again, I didn’t know my grandfather. He had passed away before I was born, as well, and I have a hard time remembering his name. I think his name was Greg Tate, but he just wasn’t really brought up a lot, that I remember, as a kid.
DELLINGER: Do you remember or know what any of your grandparents’ occupations were?
5
HANDSEL: My grandfather worked at the Ford dealership in Bristow, he was a mechanic.
DELLINGER: That’s your mom’s dad?
HANDSEL: Yes. And then my [00:08:00] grandma worked at Woolsworth, I think, when she was probably around my age, in Bristow. And as far as my father’s side, I cannot remember. I think my grandfather might have been a mechanic, possibly, because I know a lot of my uncles are. And so I think they were kind of following after him.
DELLINGER: Right, right. Okay, I want to go back to—so, you mentioned that you went to high school at Tulsa Memorial. Will you share a little bit about what those years were like for you? You know, what your experience was during that time in your life?
HANDSEL: Um, difficult. I think I was a difficult child, difficult student. That’s one of the reasons I became a teacher, so I can help students that were like me. (laughs) I didn’t do too well in school. Just, I’m not sure. You know, it was kind of, I guess, little bit of [00:09:00] ADHD and then also, just, I wasn’t really fitting in as well. So I went to Memorial until I finished my junior year, and then I was homeschooled my senior year and got my GED a little bit before graduation in May.
DELLINGER: And that was what year that you graduated?
6
HANDSEL: 2003.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, it sounds like you did struggle a little bit during those years. Were you involved in any school activities at all?
HANDSEL: No, and I think that could have been, probably, one thing that might have helped, if I had been more involved in school activities. But, yeah, it was just kind of, go to school, come back home. Which, you know, that happens to a lot of students.
DELLINGER: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so after high school graduation, where did life take you?
HANDSEL: My mom passed away. [00:10:00] A little bit after—a few months after I turned eighteen, I had been living with my aunt since May of 2003, and my mom passed away that October. So I was still with my aunt, and I was at that age where she told me, “Okay, you have to go to college and get a job.” (laughs) So I went and got both. I worked at Walmart. My aunt had a friend, she always told me ever since I was about five that I could always have a job at Walmart, so I applied there and started out as a cashier, and then moved on into pharmacy shortly after that. And as far as college, I enrolled in TCC to take all the basic courses, basic required courses.
DELLINGER: And, for those that don’t know, TCC is Tulsa Community College.
7
HANDSEL: Yes.
DELLINGER: Yeah. Which, at one time, was Tulsa Junior College. HANDSEL: Yes. I remember TJC, too. (laughs)
DELLINGER: I want to stop here, just for a minute. So you keep mentioning this aunt, and obviously she was very important in your life and influential in your life. Will you please share a little bit about her? What was her name, and—
HANDSEL: Okay. She’s my mom’s sister. She was three years older than her. I’m sorry, two years older than her. Her name’s Joy Reynolds. And she worked at St. John’s for 39 years as an RN. She worked on one of the surgical wards that they had there. And as of now, even after retirement, she’s still a nurse two days a week at St. Francis.
DELLINGER: Okay, so she’s been here in Tulsa. Okay, that’s great. Okay, so, you just shared a little bit [00:12:00] about kind of where life took you after high school. You went to TCC, you got your basics. And then, when you finished up at TCC, what did you do after that?
HANDSEL: I went on to NSU. And, at that point, I still didn’t know what I wanted to do, and I had a lot of people telling me, Oh, you should go to law school, or, You should get
8
your degree in this, or, Get your degree in that. And I wasn’t sure. So I was good at reading. I remember in high school I got a degree, I was in the top five percent of Oklahoma readers, so I was like, I can read, so I’ll go get a degree in English.
So I worked for about two years on that. But still, there was still that question, you know, after I get that degree, what am I going to do with it? And so I had my brother, my older brother, kind of pushing me a little bit towards law school. I wasn’t sure if I had a big interest in it. So after [00:13:00] I graduated, I kind of put out some feelers to see if I wanted to go on to law school, and I got accepted to a university, but I just wasn’t ready for law school. I guess I wasn’t feeling it. (laughs)
So after graduation, I moved up to Massachusetts for about six months, just to kind of get a new experience, and my older brother was living up there at the time. And so I thought, oh, maybe there’s a few schools I might be interested in. And so I kind of was researching all that, but the northeast weather got to me and I had to come back to Oklahoma. (laughter) It was too cold.
DELLINGER: So then, what year would that have been, when you came back to Oklahoma?
HANDSEL: Let’s see, I want to say it was around 2008 [00:14:00] that I came back, I think it was. Yeah. So I was, yeah, a little homesick, and then missing the Oklahoma weather, so I came back in 2008. And I asked my job—I actually told my friend, because
9
I had been working at Walmart as a pharmacy tech since I was eighteen, and I had mentioned to my friend I was thinking about coming back. And a couple hours later, my boss called and told me if I wanted my job back I could have it. (laughter) So I was like, “Okay.”
So I came back, and I continued my work in pharmacy, as a pharmacy tech with Walmart. And it got to the point where, working there for so many years, I transferred two different stores. So I was not based in Sapulpa, I moved up here to Tulsa. And then I would also go to different stores to either help out if they were short-staffed, or if [00:15:00] they had technicians that had just got certified that needed training or were, you know, studying to be pharmacy techs, I would train them.
DELLINGER: Okay. And so, I know somewhere in here, now, we’re getting close, I think, when you met Mr. Handsel.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. I met him in third grade. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Oh, wow! Okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah, we went to the same elementary, we both went to McClure Elementary. And we both went to Nimitz Middle School together. So there was a very short time in fifth grade where we were boyfriend and girlfriend for a little bit, and then that didn’t (laughs) work out at the time, so then it was just kind of like, “Oh, I don’t like
10
you,” you know, teasing and stuff. So, yeah, after middle school we both went to different high schools, and I think, yeah, it was a few years after I came back from Massachusetts, [00:16:00] it was 2011. Me and my friends were out downtown, they had, like, concerts. We were going to go on Friday and see bands play. And we were—let’s see, I think it was a couple businesses down from Cains Ballroom, and there’s a crowd of people, the band’s playing, and I strike up a conversation, and he mentions that he was a math tutor. And I was going back to TCC, I was thinking about being a pharmacist. Since I had been in pharmacy for so long, I had the pharmacists, Oh, well, you should go back and be a pharmacist. So I was like, I need a math tutor. So when he mentioned he was a math tutor, I said, “Well, what’s your name? I might come up to the TCC math lab if I need help.” And he said, “Chris Handsel.” And I remembered his name instantly because he used to tease me when we were children. [00:17:00] And I said, “Oh, I know you, I don’t like you.” (laughs)
DELLINGER: Oh, my gosh.
HANDSEL: So it was meant in kind of a jokingly way. But we kept in touch, and then we started dating a little bit after that. (laughs)
DELLINGER: That’s a great story.
HANDSEL: I know. (laughs)
11
DELLINGER: That’s a great story.
HANDSEL: I always tell that story to my middle school students when they’re teasing each other.
DELLINGER: (laughs) Y’all might be married one day.
HANDSEL: Yeah, you don’t know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Yeah, that’s a great story. Okay, so you’re back in school and you’re still trying to figure some things out for a career. So then what happens after that?
HANDSEL: Still working in the pharmacy, and then I had a little studio apartment around 61st and Memorial. And Chris had moved in there, and it seemed like I got really busy as far as training. I was working overtime. If there was a snowstorm and the pharmacy was open, they’d call me first to come in. Like, [00:18:00] so I had to put some of the chemistry classes I was taking on pause. And it was also, you know, it was something I kind of wanted to do anyway, because I am not a big math person. And I was like, You know, this is just not something I’m getting—I just don’t feel it, I’m not interested in it enough. So I just didn’t see being a pharmacist as something I wanted to do, so I started thinking, What should I do? So I’m still at that point, What am I going to do when I grow up? Even though I was grown. (laughs)
12
DELLINGER: And what age were you by this point?
HANDSEL: Oh, around twenty-eight to thirty, I was still thinking, you know, I need to do something, what should I do? But Walmart, that’s what I loved about working in the pharmacy, they were always there. (laughs) Just so I would have something to do. And then Chris and I got married in [00:19:00] 2012 on May 12, so that was a day after my
birthday. So every year I celebrate my birthday, Mother’s Day, and my anniversary, like, three days in a row.
DELLINGER: Wow, that’s a busy month.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs) And so we had been married for about—oh, let’s see, that would be about seven, eight months, and then I found out I was pregnant with Noah. So I just worked with Walmart as long as I could, I think about a month until my due date, and then I took my leave and I extended my leave after he was born, because I wasn’t ready to go to work yet. And so Chris had graduated from OSU, he had already had a bachelor’s in mechanical engineering, he had finished up his master’s in aerospace engineering, and so there was just [00:20:00] you know we had the conversation that I could be a stay-at-home mom and then he would work, and so that would work out for a few years until Noah was old enough to start elementary school, or preschool. So that was our plan. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Good. Since you’ve mentioned Noah, will you give Noah’s full name?
13
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. Noah Quinn Handsel.
DELLINGER: Okay, and Noah is how old now?
HANDSEL: He is nine.
DELLINGER: Okay. And where does he goes to school?
HANDSEL: He goes to school at Council Oak Elementary.
DELLINGER: Very good, here in Tulsa.
HANDSEL: Yes, yeah, here in Tulsa.
DELLINGER: And so Noah is—I mean, I just kind of assumed, earlier, but is he named after your grandfather?
HANDSEL: A bit. We were very democratic about how we named him. Chris and I both made a list of our top five favorite names and we combined the list, so we had a list of about ten names and we voted separately and compared what name was our favorite. And so [00:21:00] Noah was our second-favorite on both of our little sheets. So I picked it
14
because of my grandfather that I didn’t know but I’d heard good stories about, and so we went with Noah as his first name.
DELLINGER: Very good, that’s a great story, too.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Very good. Okay, so, I’d like for you, if you would, to talk a—you know, from our previous conversation, you had told me you went back to school, you went back to NSU. And you did pursue another degree. So let’s talk about that.
HANDSEL: So when Noah was, I think he was about one year old, around that age, we needed things to do. He was getting older, so I could start doing a little more with him. And I enrolled him in baby gymnastics. And so he would go there once a week, and they would work on just strengthening your muscles, getting them moving more, and being more confident with [00:22:00] moving. And I really enjoyed those classes. I enjoyed taking them and being part of it. And so they had an opening there, and I asked, you know, “What experience do you need to teach a baby how to do a forward roll?” So it was training on the job, so I applied, and so I would teach classes there a couple times a week.
And so it was perfect, because it wasn’t a full-time job. It was hardly a part-time job, because it was just a few hours every other day. So it worked out. I could bring Noah up
15
there with me if I needed to, so I really enjoyed it. And I was there for, I think, a year or two. And then the company was bought out by another group of people, so I decided, at that point, I was like, Well, you know, I should go back to school. And I was enjoying teaching so much it finally clicked. I was like, That’s what I want to do. [00:23:00] Like, being around all these little kids and they always come up to me, tell me their life story. So I was like, that’s what I’m going to do. So I went back to NSU and I enrolled in their College of Education.
DELLINGER: And so how long were you working on that degree?
HANDSEL: I had to take it slow at first. I started in 2018, I think it’s only a two-year degree, but I just finished in 2021. I graduated in December of 2021. So I didn’t take full time classes at first, just because I had home life and Noah and everything.
DELLINGER: Right. Yeah, and you already had your first two years, so that’s why it only took you—you only had two more years to finish that degree. So, being a wife and a mom and you go back to college, did you do in-person classes or did you do online classes?
HANDSEL: It was a combination. There were times where I did have to go up there to NSU [00:24:00] and take in-person classes, but then the pandemic hit, so NSU made all of their classes online. And right as they made everything online, I wasn’t taking any internships at the time, so I didn’t have to worry about coming up to any of the schools to
16
shadow any of the teachers. And I could stay at home with Noah, so I didn’t have to worry about anybody watching him while I was in class. So it was just kind of, you know, log on at a certain time and learn from home.
DELLINGER: Yes. Where did you do your student teaching?
HANDSEL: A few different places. You have to do three different internships, and the lengths get a little bit longer each time. My first internship was fourth grade reading at Hamilton Elementary in Tulsa. My second internship was first grade, and that was in Sapulpa, Oklahoma at Jefferson Elementary. And then my third internship, [00:25:00] which was the longest one, was here at Memorial Middle School, teaching seventh-grade geography.
DELLINGER: Very good. I just thought of something. So, you were in school when the pandemic hit during 2020. Were you concerned at any point that the pandemic was going to interrupt your process—because the schools were closed, initially. You would start your student teaching in 2021. In 2020, was that ever a concern for you?
HANDSEL: It was, because I did my first internship right before the pandemic hit, I think it was in 2019. I did my first internship that spring, and then I took a break to take a little bit more classes, and then I did my second internship. The pandemic had hit, [00:26:00] everyone had gone on lockdown, schools were out, and then right after, I want to say that first fall semester—so that would be, I think it was 2022, that spring— that’s
17
when I did my second internship. So we had been living with COVID for about a year. I go to first grade in Sapulpa and all the children are masked. And I was, I was concerned. I was like, Well, am I going to have to log onto Zoom and just kind of watch another teacher teach online? I was wondering, like, how is that going to work? I’m not going to get that social interaction in person with these students. And I think that’s how I learn best, is being right there doing—so, yeah, that was concerning.
DELLINGER: When did NSU go back to in-person?
HANDSEL: They gave us options first. I want to say it was after that first year, so [00:27:00] I think 2021, they gave us the option. They said, You can still stay online or you can come back up here. I think if you wanted to stay online you had to pay, like, an additional fifty dollars per class, because they were having to have all these students register with Zoom. So you just didn’t get a free Zoom account, you got the official Zoom account, which I think has a few more options. They needed us to have that if we were teaching and using Zoom at the same time. So I did start out, I think, taking a few online classes, but then I also had to do my internship in person.
DELLINGER: Right. And then I know during 2020 there were universities that didn’t get to have graduation ceremonies, and so in 2021 were you able to do the actual walk and have a graduation ceremony?
18
HANDSEL: Let’s see, that would have been—yeah, that was in December. And mine was smaller, because it was in December, so [00:28:00] I didn’t have the big one at the end of May. It was a smaller group of students and it was in a smaller building. But, yes, we did get to go up there and do the whole ceremony process and everything. So, yeah, it was just, masks were on until you took your graduation picture. You could take it off for a second, take your picture, put it back on. (laughter)
DELLINGER: Okay. All right. So you did an internship here at Memorial Middle School, and you’re still here at Memorial Middle School. So I’d like to know what it is about this school that made you want to stay here and start your career here.
HANDSEL: Going to college, we have a lot of our professors that used to be teachers. And so we’d get the good stories that, you know, they’re very heartwarming, but then [00:29:00] we’d also kind of get some battle stories as well. Where it’s not just students that—kind of some negative stories about how hard it is to teach sometimes. But also interactions with staff. And so sometimes I’d hear horror stories about how teachers were treating each other, or, certain schools, they don’t treat their teachers as well. And that really scared me, I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I don’t want to be in a school with that kind of negative energy.
So, thankfully, all the schools I went to, I really enjoyed them. I didn’t get that feeling when I was at their locations. I came here to Memorial, and I’m watching not just my teacher that I’m shadowing, but also all the other teachers, when I see them in the hall or
19
the break room. And I really liked just the energy that they all had. It was hard coming back from COVID, having to [00:30:00] kind of get students used to being in classes. And just the amount of work to get everyone caught up, and these teachers were facing it all, but they were still happy and getting along and working together, and I really liked that. So right before my internship was up, I asked the principal at the time if I could stay once I graduated to be a teacher, and he said yes. (laughs)
DELLINGER: And so what have you been doing here at Memorial Middle School? Because I know you’ve taught some different subjects.
HANDSEL: I did. The deal with the previous principal was, he was like, “Yes, you’re more than welcome to stay here.” He said, “I have a few openings,” and he named them off, and they were both math. So sixth grade math was available, and he told me, he was like, “You know, you’ve already told me that [00:31:00] math is not your strong area, but we do need a math teacher. If you can just get these kids through this semester in the fall, we’ll have some openings that, you know, you can pick from those subjects.” That would be the 2022 fall semester. So I was like, Okay, I can do math. It’s sixth grade math, I can do that for a semester. And I got them through. And I think out of about 190 or so students, every student’s grade went up once I showed up in January. So that was good to know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, I mean, that’s a success story, for you and for all those students.
20
HANDSEL: Yeah, so they just, they needed to have a consistent teacher, not just substitutes. So I think we kind of helped each other, and I became a better teacher. Because coming in mid-year is way different than starting at the beginning of the year with students. So I learned a [00:32:00] lot on the job. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Right. And so now you’re teaching seventh grade geography, and so what is it about geography, that you enjoy teaching that to young people?
HANDSEL: I just, I remember when I was in middle school, all our teachers would have the maps on the wall, and having ADHD, I was listening less to the teacher, but I was looking at all those maps. So I always feel like that was something I was really strong with. I’m really good at, like, navigation, reading maps, and I always had an interest in traveling and culture, and that was probably my number one interest. And history. I mean, all of that’s geography. And I just felt like, if that was my strong suit, that’s mine, is geography and history. So I could come into a class, and they’d say, “Okay, well, you’re teaching about Europe today.” And [00:33:00] I could, you know, I could pull it off if I needed to without a lesson plan, because it’s just, it’s all in there.
DELLINGER: Yeah, very good. So it does, it helps when you’re passionate about something, right?
HANDSEL: Yes, yeah.
21
DELLINGER: That you’re doing. Yeah. I want to go back to Chris and Noah. We talked a little bit about him, but I wanted to give you another opportunity to share a little bit more about these guys who are in your life, and, especially Noah. If you’d like to talk a little bit more about Noah and his life, that’d be great.
HANDSEL: Okay. I’m trying to think where to start with Noah. I think he’s very interesting, and I’m sure all parents say that, but I like his creativity. He’s always been very creative and outside-of-the-box thinking sometimes, which, I think that keeps everything interesting, especially with his drawing and his art. I remember during the [00:34:00] Muscogee (Creek) festival that they have in the summer, before COVID hit, he had entered a drawing, a painting, for their art contest, and I want to say he was about five when he did that painting. And so they had everything by ages, I think you could start submitting stuff when you were about two or three, and so they had it broken into about four or five age groups with different areas, like painting, photography, or even making dresses or beadwork. Sculptures.
And so we get there, and they have everything on display, all of the different art, and I’m walking around looking for his, and I was like, “That would be cute, if he won, you know, maybe for his age group. That would make me really happy.” And we go over there, and I see these big words next to his picture, and it says, “Best in show.” So it was just a [00:35:00] little—it was butcher paper that he had been coloring on, and we had been designing the float for the parade for the Tulsa Creek Community Center, and he had just got some of that butcher paper and some of that red and black paint and did kind
22
of an almost Jackson Pollock-like painting. And so he had won best of show at five and beat out teenagers and other students that had been at this for years. And I was just like, Oh, gosh. I was very excited. I saved everything, even the envelope that he got that said “best in show,” that’s in his little memory box.
DELLINGER: Yes, absolutely. So who does Noah get those abilities from, do you think? Are you—
HANDSEL: I think both. Honestly, I think Chris, he’s really good at pastel drawing and everything. And I’ve gotten comments before about—I used to do some little side work where I would decorate for parties, and I’ve gone as far as getting [00:36:00] cardboard
and making cutout little dinosaurs and painting them and everything. And so I think both of us, I think he kind of got that eye for things.
DELLINGER: Good. Does Noah like school?
HANDSEL: He does. It was a little bit of a struggle at first, because he had grown up with me in the home, and going out and doing all these adult things. Especially being an only child, sometimes I kind of think he’s a little bit more mature. And then also he started late, having that fall birthday, so he’s one of the oldest kids in class, and it was kind of a struggle at first for him to get used to being with a whole bunch of other kids during the day without me. (laughs) But I want to say he got better after the pandemic about going to school and liking it. And then he’s struggled with reading, he was
23
struggling with reading right before the pandemic. And then a little bit during the pandemic, and then once he came back, I [00:37:00] think he got a little bit stronger, being back in person, and with all the tutoring and everything. So he’s gotten to the point, I think he knows he can read, and I know he likes it a little bit more because he can read everything.
DELLINGER: Right, right. Yeah. Okay, well, is there anything else you’d like to share about Chris or Noah? If not, we’ll—
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah, I talked a whole bunch about Noah and I forgot about Chris. (laughter) I can throw out some of his hobbies that he likes. I always tell everybody that we’re kind of well-rounded parents, because I’m more of the reading and history side when it comes to Noah’s homework, and then Chris is more of the math and science and physics part of it. And that kind of definitely shows in his hobbies, he’s really interested in kind of the STEM part of things. Like, drones and building things. He’s definitely one of the drone hobbyists. And then, also, he kind of likes going out and exploring [00:38:00] and building devices. Gold panning is kind of a hobby of his, so he likes kind of building all those little Schulz boxes and filtration systems to get the gold. So that’s kind of been his hobby lately. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Very interesting.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
24
DELLINGER: Yeah, okay. Well, very good. Yeah, all right. Well, what about you? Do you have any hobbies, or activities that you enjoy?
HANDSEL: I feel like being a first-year teacher I kind of had to put those on pause for right now until I can get in my groove, which, I’m getting there. But I actually, I mentioned before I liked making things, just for different parties or decorating for things. And I really do enjoy that. I’ve made dinosaur costumes out of cardboard and paint and I just, I love doing that [00:39:00] stuff. You know, people will say, Oh, I need a wreath for Christmas, and they’ll give me the material, and I’ll put it together and make it for them. Or sewing, I think that’s a good—I learned how to make masks during the pandemic, and I even had my own business card. So it was like, “Masks by Jen,” so fabric masks in any size or fabric or color. I was selling those online for a while, so that was a good little business venture I did during the pandemic. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Yeah, that’s very industrious, right there. (laughs)
HANDSEL: Yeah, I mean, I was selling and making, you know, dozens a day. So that was helpful. And people were kind of keeping each other from getting sick by wearing them, so I was happy to do it. But sewing, I would say sewing, too, is one of my favorite hobbies to do, because it’s very relaxing.
DELLINGER: How old were you when you learned to sew?
25
HANDSEL: Just a couple years ago that I officially got good. I knew the basics because [00:40:00] my middle school had an economics class after school, and so we learned the basics of how to use a machine, how to make a pillow and do all that little stitching. And then a couple years ago I asked for a sewing machine and I had to go back and remember how to do all that stuff. But I did, I remembered the basics, and then kind of just learned
along the way with the rest of it. Which, I’m still learning, but I’ve gotten to the point where I was making ribbon skirts. I made one for my aunt for Christmas a couple years ago. So I really do, that’s my hobby, I think.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, what community activities are you involved with?
HANDSEL: I was just elected the secretary for the Tulsa Creek Community Center, but before that, I helped out with a lot of different activities. I started out teaching yoga and gymnastics to some of the members, [00:41:00] and then also tai chi. And we even did a
wellness class, so there’s that teaching aspect coming out. (laughs) And then I also helped a lot with the youth, doing the junior Olympics, and also planning just different events, the back-to-school events. I really like that. My big thing is getting youth involved with the community center, so when they’re adults, they still want to volunteer and give back. So that’s kind of also my side projects there, too.
DELLINGER: Yes, yes. So you have a very busy life. Yeah, that’s good. Okay, well, I’ll tell you what, I think what we’re going to do at this point is we’re going to transition into
26
some questions about COVID-19, the pandemic, your experiences. But thank you so much for sharing these things about yourself and your family.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah, you’re welcome.
DELLINGER: [00:42:00] Mrs. Handsel, when in 2020 do you remember first hearing about the COVID-19 virus, and how did you hear about it?
HANDSEL: I actually remember seeing a little news snippet back in, like, November or early December on Facebook. I love reading the news articles on Facebook, and that’s just where I get my information. I would sit on my couch, drink my coffee, and go through there and read all the articles. And health, science, stuff like that’s always top on my list when I read the news. And I remember seeing a little snippet about a virus. A few people had gotten sick, and nothing worried about it spreading. You know, just one of those little mystery viruses you hear about every now and then. And I remember thinking, Oh, you know, that’s unfortunate, but I just kind of put it out of my mind. I didn’t think it would spread, even though, you know, it did.
And then [00:43:00] you start hearing about it again at the beginning of 2020. You’d hear little snippets here and there. Oh, that virus in China is spreading. It’s here, it’s in San Francisco, it’s in New York. So it started getting worse and worse. And I forgot to mention this in my personal interview, but I am a big germophobe. I think that’s kind of part of the obsessive compulsive disorder kind of coming out, but I’m very organized.
27
Clean, neat, sanitized. And that was probably one of my biggest fears, was a virus like that coming out.
DELLINGER: Yeah.
HANDSEL: I know I thought about it even before. I was like, If something ever happened like that, how would we avoid getting sick? We’d have to wipe our groceries down and not go out. So I had thought about these things before, just being that minded person. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Wow, okay. Yes. Once the virus [00:44:00] was here in Oklahoma, Muscogee (Creek) Nation, what were some of the initial conversations that you had with your family and friends? And even coworkers? Well, you wouldn’t have been—you weren’t teaching at that time, yet, when it first came here.
HANDSEL: No. Classmates at college.
DELLINGER: Classmates, yeah, classmates. What were some of your initial conversations with these folks about the virus?
HANDSEL: My first one would have been with my family. I told my husband, because he knew how I was about getting sick, I told him, I said, “We have to be strict about this.” People were still debating over masks at that time. Should we wear them? I’m not
28
going to wear them, you know. So I told him, I said, “We’re going to be strict about this. Here’s your hand sanitizer, here’s your antibacterial wipes, here’s Clorox wipes. You’re keeping all this in your car. We’re going to wear a mask. If we’re outside, we’re wearing
a mask. You go to QuikTrip, we’re wearing our masks and washing our hands and everything.” I mean, I think I was a little [00:45:00] overboard, but we didn’t get sick. So that was our main thing, I was like, “I don’t want you to get sick, I don’t want Noah to get sick.” So that was my main concern, was protecting my family.
DELLINGER: Right. But do you think you were overboard? I mean, given what was— HANDSEL: We didn’t get sick.
DELLINGER: Yeah.
HANDSEL: Yeah. I guess, you know, some people might have seen it that way. I didn’t because we weren’t getting sick, and nobody near us was getting sick. My aunt’s the same way, she, you know, works in a hospital, so she had that protocol. That was just part of her daily work, was that type of protocol. And it kind of got a little stressful, because her ward at St. Francis became a COVID ward, so she was going in there with the people that were sick and the ones that were extremely sick.
DELLINGER: Yeah, so she was a front line—
29
HANDSEL: Yeah, she was.
DELLINGER: One of our front line workers.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Okay. Well, when local and state governments began lockdowns and shelter-in-place orders, [00:46:00] how did those—just the words, how did those words make you feel?
HANDSEL: It was a little scary, because it’s kind of like all those movies about pandemics. We’re told to stay where we’re at, things must be bad, you know? I was really worried. And you’d hear in the news, they were keeping a death tally on CNN, the people that were infected, the people that were dying. So it was scary. I mean, and then you’ve got your kid and you start thinking, Well, what if they got sick? You know, they were talking about children getting sick and passing away. So that—scary. Frightening. Would be the words.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, did you, Chris, and Noah, were you all able to shelter in place at home for a period of time?
HANDSEL: We were. Noah and I definitely were, with classes being cancelled. School went online. Well, school wasn’t cancelled, school went online, virtually. I think Chris, a
30
few times, they would have to COVID—but when the tests came out and [00:47:00] even before that, they were doing temperature tests before the tests were available. So they were testing temperatures before you went into the building. If one person was infected, they would shut the office down. You could work from home. They tried to bring everyone in as much as possible, but sometimes it just wasn’t. So they did have to work from home options.
DELLINGER: And we—I didn’t ask you where Chris works, the name of his company? HANDSEL: CUST-O-FAB in Sand Springs.
DELLINGER: Okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah. They have a lot of business kind of in the oil industry.
DELLINGER: So, for him, there were times when the office shut down and he did have to be at home?
HANDSEL: Mm-hmm.
DELLINGER: So what was that like for the three of you, being home twenty-four/seven? What was that experience like?
31
HANDSEL: I liked it. I mean, because I got to see him more. He worked crazy hours, sometimes he’d have to work twelve-, fourteen-hour days. Sometimes he’d be at work on the weekends, working until, like, one or two in the morning. [00:48:00] So it was nice to see him there at home and talk to him. I felt bad, because I knew he had to focus on his work and, you know, we’ve got Noah and me kind of running around and trying to do our thing. So I was kind of like, “All right, we all need to focus,” and it’s kind of hard when you’re with your family, you just want to hang out.
DELLINGER: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like a long extended weekend, almost. HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: What was it that made you realize the severity of the virus?
HANDSEL: I think it was a couple things. Kind of during and then even after, I think having news stations show all those people that were getting infected. I mean, it was just numbers constantly going up, and then the death total was mentioned constantly. Even if you weren’t watching TV, you’d see it in news articles. You know, just so many people infected in Oklahoma. “This many people have died in Oklahoma.” So, I mean, that showed the severity, because what other [00:49:00] time—I couldn’t remember, where we had been counting people that were getting sick. And even closing down essential businesses that we needed. So that kind of showed me the severity of it.
32
DELLINGER: Right. So you talked about how COVID impacted your ability to go to school and for Noah to go to school and Chris to work. What other ways did COVID-19 change life for you and your family?
HANDSEL: Just being at home with school. And even though I’m a teacher and I was going to school to be a teacher, it was hard. I’ve had several people that are either tutors or teachers, they have made little comments about, I can teach thirty kids in a classroom, but teaching my own child is a different story. And it is, because we’re more comfortable with each other, and I [00:50:00] think he knows, “If I don’t want to do this, I can just act this way. And mom will go along with it.” And I’m like, “No, we have to get this work done, you’ve got to learn this.” And it wasn’t an issue of me teaching the material, it was just, you know, sometimes he just didn’t want to do it. (laughs) So it was kind of like a little personality war going on there.
DELLINGER: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would be a big adjustment. Your mom, and then all of the sudden, your mom and teacher.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs) And so, yeah, that was just—and then getting him on, keeping him on a schedule. Because he—you know, sometimes classes didn’t start online until nine o’clock, he thought he could sleep until 8:45. And I’m like, “No, you’ve got to get up just like before.” (laughs)
33
DELLINGER: Yes. Yes. How did you and Chris, when you did have to leave the house, especially during that first year, before the vaccines rolled out, how did you maneuver that?
HANDSEL: Only go out if you needed something super important, and when we did go out, [00:51:00] masks. I remember sometimes I would double up on masks. Like, I’d have a surgical-grade mask plus one of the ones I was making, the fabric masks, together. I had gloves. Like, the latex gloves. And I would wear those out, but whenever we went out, let’s say for groceries, only one of us would go. So one person goes and gets everything. We bring it back and we were “Cloroxing” everything that came into the house. And then, you know, after that, don’t touch anything until you wash your hands. I mean, we were so strict about everything.
DELLINGER: Was there any eating out?
HANDSEL: I don’t think so. I don’t remember us—we didn’t, honestly. And I had family ask, once things kind of got a little bit better and people could go to restaurants and eat out, I still wouldn’t. Because they’d say, Oh, you just take your [00:52:00] mask off when you eat, but I was like, “No, that air is still there, you’re breathing it in.” I wouldn’t. I think I went out to eat, when it was summer, I would eat outdoors if they had outdoor table eating and stuff. That was fine. But as far as indoors, I don’t think we started doing that until about a year ago. Yeah. For the longest time, we didn’t eat inside anywhere.
34
DELLINGER: Okay. What is your knowledge and understanding about the COVID-19 virus, especially its effect on the human body if someone contracts it?
HANDSEL: When I was, I’d say around ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, I wanted to work for the CDC. I’d even gone as far as to go on vacations just to see the CDC. I remember, I was in eighth grade and I read a book this thick called The Coming Plague about viruses emerging and causing the same effect that COVID has. So I [00:53:00] feel like I knew a little bit more than some other people about how dangerous a situation like this could be, which is one reason we took all the precautions. And then hearing my aunt talk about people that were getting sick and everything, and how COVID doesn’t just make you sick like a cold or the flu. I mean, it’s gotten to the part where it can damage certain aspects of your brain or even your extremities and affect, like, your fingers and toes. I mean, it’s kind of an all-over virus, and so that’s just—I think it was just so much more. Had more negative effects than other viruses. So I tried to research as much as I could about it.
DELLINGER: Well, so you’ve said that you and Chris and Noah have stayed away from COVID, thank goodness. Have you had any family members or friends who have gone through COVID episodes?
HANDSEL: For a long [00:54:00] time, we didn’t. Even my aunt, working in the COVID ward, she never got it. And then fall of 2023—or, sorry, 2022, so just this last season—I think everyone got extremely lax. You know, there was people that kind of relaxed
35
masking and all that before, but it seems like our family kind of started getting lax about it this last fall. And I feel like as soon as we did, that’s when we got it.
Yeah. I wasn’t feeling well, and I started COVID testing myself every day with those little tests that the government sent out in the mail. I used one in the morning, used one in the evening, and it was, you know, negative, negative, for a couple days. And then that one morning it hit positive, and I kind of isolated myself from my family, but unfortunately it was too late. We had shared water bottles [00:55:00] and been near each other. We were all infected. So, yeah, then we had firsthand knowledge. (laughs)
DELLINGER: So what are the schools doing now? Like, in that situation, you have a teacher who’s tested COVID-positive, and you’re going to stay home. What is the school’s process now for that, as far as the students being exposed?
HANDSEL: Well, when I first started back in January of 2022, we were out for two weeks. School came back in session around January 3 or January 4, and school stayed out for almost two or three weeks, because so many teachers were sick and so many students were sick. We had to go virtually again for a short period. So my first few weeks back, I was in here in my room with my laptop on Zoom. So that was the protocol. Now, since we haven’t really had that many people get it, [00:56:00] when I got it, I let my principal know. I showed him my positive test result I got from the doctor. I was out for—I think I had to be out for five days. Once I came back, I think I had to wear a mask for another five days after that. So I just sent all my lesson plans electronically for the substitutes.
36
And same thing with students, they have to be out for a certain period, and when they come back, they have to wear a mask for five days.
DELLINGER: What has been your observance as far as parents notifying the school that their student has tested positive with COVID?
HANDSEL: Sometimes I don’t think it happens all the time, because, yeah, we’ll have some student, they’re not feeling well, they go home half the day, and then we find out later, oh, they had COVID and they were up here. So it doesn’t happen a lot, but it does
happen. I think when COVID was still on everyone’s minds, back in [00:57:00] early 2022, 2021, I think parents were more concerned and they would keep their kids out if we were in school at the time. But I think now, I think it’s getting lax as far as getting reported.
DELLINGER: Okay. Okay. I want to switch gears here a little bit and I want to ask you about the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, the Nation’s leadership. How do you think that they have performed throughout the pandemic, and especially, you know, going back to the early days of the pandemic, what are your thoughts about how they addressed the pandemic and took care of Muscogee people?
HANDSEL: I remember, like, my aunt, she’s involved with our church, Pickett Church in Sapulpa, Oklahoma, and I remember them [00:58:00] getting, like, supplies sent to them, like masks and gloves and hand sanitizer and all that stuff, for them to use for all the
37
members. So I really liked that, all those items getting sent out to help all the little local communities. And the community center in Tulsa, you know, we still have it, the little temperature check, you have to sign in. I really like that, just all those protocols in place to help kind of keep the virus from spreading. I feel like they addressed it really well. Sometimes I think they addressed it better than other governments, like the city of Tulsa, or even Oklahoma or the United States. I remember hearing that employees could work virtually as much as they could. I think that helped a lot. If you’re not around people you can’t really get sick, so I really like how they took care and addressed it more seriously.
DELLINGER: Are you familiar with any of the [00:59:00] I’m going to say COVID relief efforts that they provided to Muscogee citizens?
HANDSEL: Yes, I applied for it and I’m glad that they did that, because, you know, people couldn’t work. And depending on the type of job you have, if you can’t work, you might not get paid. If you’re sick, you’re not getting paid. So I’m glad that helped, they had that help for everyone, because I applied for it and it helped my family. It helped us get by. You know, we used it for things like groceries, or I had to repair my car so I could get to school, so stuff like that, it really helped.
DELLINGER: And what you’re talking about is the—that’s the money that the Nation got from the CARES Act?
HANDSEL: Yes.
38
DELLINGER: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was helpful.
HANDSEL: And then the vaccine incentive as well, I liked that. I was going to get mine anyway, but, you know, just offering that to people who might be on the fence about it, I think that really helped as well. Because I’m a big fan of incentivizing people sometimes for things. (laughs) [01:00:00]
DELLINGER: Right. Were you involved at all with the—I know they also provided food.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah.
DELLINGER: For citizens.
HANDSEL: I wasn’t, but my aunt, she would go and get, like, a little food box. And so we kind of shared it together. She’d get her little box and then we would, you know— she’s like, “Oh, do you need soup or anything?” So we would kind of split those. So that helped out a lot, too, because that kind of kept her from going to the grocery store. She could just drive up, they’d put the little box in her car, and she was good, so she wouldn’t have to go to Walmart and touch bread that other people had touched or be around people that were coughing. So I really think that helped, especially people that were vulnerable or didn’t want to get out.
39
DELLINGER: Yeah. Now, you touched on how our local and state and federal governments responded to COVID, and I was going to ask you this question [01:01:00] about, like, how did the Muscogee (Creek) Nation perform in comparison to these other governmental entities? Do you have anything else that you’d like to share about that?
HANDSEL: A couple things, I guess. You know, the thing—it’s a hard choice to make. Masking was my number one thing. They can’t force people to mask up but I wish more would have been done to encourage people to mask up. I know, like I said, again, with our government, I’m glad we have the government we have. I just wish they could have found a way to get people to mask up more or get vaccinated more. You know, to help those people that were kind of on the fence about it.
And then, as far as addressing some things after COVID, or even during the pandemic, because students went to school. They still had the option to go to school [01:02:00] on Zoom. Chromebooks were given to students who didn’t have them, internet was given
out to students who didn’t have it. But I don’t feel like enough was done to help those students who were learning from home. My son kind of lucked out, because I was a teacher, or I was becoming a teacher at the time. But there’s some students, their parents don’t have that background. I wish there’d been resources to help the parents teach their kids, or more ways to make sure the kids did their work. Because some kids didn’t log on that whole time during the pandemic. They come back to school and they can’t multiply, they can’t divide, and they’re sixth, seventh grade. Or they can’t read past a third-grade
40
level. So I wish more would have been done to monitor or regulate student learning during the pandemic, because I feel like we focused more on the virus and preventing it, but we should have focused more on how to deal with it and how to help students learn during that time.
DELLINGER: Yeah. [01:03:00] We’re in sync here, you just answered my next three questions. (laughter) But that’s okay, because, yeah, I was going to ask you the impact that COVID and the pandemic had on education, and you just talked about that. And the ability of teachers to teach and students to learn. It obviously was a big issue, not only here in Oklahoma, but across the country.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. And it’s not just what the students—you know, reading and math and all of that. It’s social, too. Students that were out for a year or a year and a half that were only at home, and they come back to a classroom full of thirty other students, they
don’t have the social skills for that anymore. They had to relearn classroom behavior, relearn how to resolve conflicts without hitting or screaming. And it was a process, and, you know, we’re [01:04:00] still working on it, and it’s not just Tulsa, it’s not just Oklahoma. It’s the entire country. There’s teachers in Pennsylvania and Florida and California dealing with the same behavioral issues right now, and it’s not the students’ fault, it’s just, they were isolated and they’ve got to learn how to act again and how to behave again in social situations. So it will be a process, and I think it might be something that might affect them their entire lives, just like the education they missed out on. It could affect their entire lives.
41
DELLINGER: Yeah. Did you feel like in the heat of the pandemic, were you getting support from Tulsa Public School System? Did you feel like the system itself was trying to support you more than at the state level?
HANDSEL: I do, because I feel like, TPS, they offered us a Chromebook. We didn’t need one, because we had the devices. They offered us internet, but we [01:05:00] didn’t need it, so we declined it. It was there for kids who needed it. I liked that. You could go to schools and pick up your kid’s workbook or pick up supplies. I mean, so many places were giving out supplies, still, so that was helpful. But, again, I feel like I had an advantage because I wasn’t working and I was at home with my kid, so I could go up there and pick up his stuff when it was time. But if I was a working parent, when would I get that stuff? It’s hard for people to take off to get those things. Maybe they can’t at all. I’m not sure how that worked in situations when a parent couldn’t pick up the material for their student. So I feel like they did help, but I think they didn’t look at all the angles. Angles we’re just now realizing. So everyone tried their best, I feel, but there was just so much going on. It was hard to address everything.
DELLINGER: Yes. Yes. Now, you’ve touched on the social and behavioral issues [01:06:00] that you feel like have been caused by COVID-19, the pandemic, the kids being isolated. Can you share any thoughts about how the pandemic has affected the mental health of our children here in the United States because of the pandemic?
42
HANDSEL: Yeah. You read in articles, people were getting depressed, people were turning to substances, and all kinds of negative effects on mental health. And I think for the students, too, I don’t want to name specifics, but I think, yeah. Kids were at home and they had to deal with a lot of stuff that they normally might have been protected from, had they been at school. Or they were left at home and maybe they got to thinking about things, and that could have led to other issues like anxiety or depression. Or coming back into a roomful of students could have [01:07:00] brought up feelings of anxiety that they might not have had. I know students still wear masks, even though we’re not required to, because they are so scared of getting sick. I have a student in tears because her mask came off, someone had pulled it off, and she thought she was going to get sick. And that was, you know, we were almost at panic attack level. So it has affected their mental health. And I just, yeah, I wish—I think we still need to address that, too. Yeah. Because it has—even though it’s not something you can see as much, it’s still there.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, you mentioned that you have been vaccinated, and will you share why it was important for you to be vaccinated?
HANDSEL: My main thing was just protection. I wanted my family protected. I just—I saw getting this, back when [01:08:00] healthy people were dying overnight in their rooms, or people, their lungs were filling up and they were passing away, just, so quickly. I didn’t want that happening to my family, so I told my husband, “I think we’ve got to get it, as soon as it’s available, we’re going.” Even though I sometimes have this feeling that sometimes medications are pushed through too quickly. You might hear about a
43
medication that was recalled a couple years after it came out because it causes heart damage. Or it was having these unintended side effects. And I worried about that. I said, “They rushed this, in a way, so people could avoid getting sick, but what’s going to happen ten years from now? Or five years from now?” And I really had to consider that, but I felt avoiding the virus was more important overall. So, yeah, we did get vaccinated and we got our boosters.
DELLINGER: [01:09:00] And which of the vaccines and boosters have you had?
HANDSEL: My husband—we went to different locations, just based on our schedule. So him and his mom got the Pfizer vaccine, I think my son also got the Pfizer vaccine as well, when it was available to children. And then I think I was the only one in my family that got the Moderna, now that I think about it.
DELLINGER: Did you all have side effects?
HANDSEL: Yeah. It’s like the flu. That’s one of the things I do not like about being sick, is the achiness. I don’t mind the sleepiness, because I can just take a nap. But, yeah, just that achy flu feeling. Like, heavy limbs and everything, I don’t like that part. That just, that zap of energy. But next day, you’re better, and then you don’t have to worry about contracting the virus as much. You know, there’s still a chance, but you feel more protected.
44
DELLINGER: Right. How did Noah do with the vaccine? [01:10:00]
HANDSEL: Better than me, I think. The side effects didn’t hit him as hard. He was awesome at getting the shot. We didn’t have to hold him down like a toddler. He wanted to get it because he was realizing how important this was, and how that virus has changed his whole life. So he wanted to get it. So, not too much of an argument there.
DELLINGER: Was that, for you and Chris, was that a difficult decision, as parents, for you to make? To have your child—because I know that was a big, it probably continues to be a debate in this country, as to whether to give this vaccine to certain-aged children. Was that a difficult decision for you?
HANDSEL: It was, because you worry about the side effects, but—and this is kind of silly, I always reference this, kind of as part of my argument. I was watching a show one time and they had vaccinations as the [01:11:00] topic, and they said, Shots hurt, but not as much as getting whatever sickness it is. And so, yeah, I’d rather him get the shot than get sick. So that was what weighed out. I just couldn’t imagine him getting the virus. And I gave him the option to, I said, “If you just don’t want this, that’s fine. I don’t want to push it on you. I got it, but it’s up to you.” And he wanted it. For the same reasons, to kind of feel a little bit more protected.
DELLINGER: Yes. Very good. Going back to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, I asked you about leadership, but what are your thoughts about how the Muscogee (Creek) Nation
45
health department performed? And they continue to, but what are your thoughts about how they performed in the early days of the pandemic?
HANDSEL: I think I really like the protocol, because it feels like, if there’s [01:12:00] a possibility that you are infected with the virus, it was kind of like, you know, you were here away from people who were just coming in to get their medication refilled or to check about some other issue that was affecting their health. Everyone had to wear a mask, it wasn’t an option, which, I really like that. You want to go in, you’ve got to get your temperature checked and wear your mask. That keeps everyone safe, right there. And then having people come out to do the test. Again, you’re avoiding getting sick by keeping that one person kind of isolated from everyone else. And then even bringing out medications, out to the car if they needed to. So they—I feel like I really liked their protocols, and they’re still keeping it like that. You don’t have to get your temperature checked at the clinic we go to, but you still have to wear your mask. And I think they still have the little parking spots to get tested for COVID, too.
DELLINGER: Which clinic do you use?
HANDSEL: Fifth and Peoria. [01:13:00]
DELLINGER: Oh, okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah. Indian Healthcare Resource Center.
46
DELLINGER: Yes. How did COVID-19 and the pandemic affect Tulsa Creek Indian Community?
HANDSEL: Well, I feel like I just took all my volunteer stuff and put it on pause. Because people couldn’t meet. They cancelled the festival in the summer, so I couldn’t— it was Noah’s year to—he was old enough to do the junior Olympics, and I was excited about volunteering. And they cancelled it, just because of everything. And then I think it was put on hold and cancelled the year after that. And so it was almost like it was just kind of gone for a while, the Adult Community Center, because there’s not much that could be done. And they tried, we had the little drive-through things where they did, like, the groceries and stuff like that. But it’s just, people weren’t coming together as much, or at all.
DELLINGER: At that community center, was there any [01:14:00] loss of life because of COVID?
HANDSEL: I can’t remember. I don’t remember anyone that I knew personally. I think there were some members, they got it and—I just don’t remember hearing about anyone that passed away. I know there might have been a couple, but not off the top of my head.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, after three years of having COVID-19 in existence here in the United States, what are your thoughts about COVID-19 ever going away?
47
HANDSEL: I don’t think it ever will. I mean, it’s like the flu. I mean, HIV came out in the ’80s and we’re still working on stopping that. I don’t think it’ll ever go away. Once something’s here, if it’s established, I don’t think it’ll go away. We thought we beat, I think it was smallpox or something else, too. Maybe polio, it was polio. We thought we beat polio, and it’s coming back, it’s in the wastewater in New York. So [01:15:00] there are people that are carrying it right now. I just think we have to learn to live with it and do what we can to kind of keep it at bay. Establishing certain protocols. Just handwashing can mean so much. So stuff like that, as more of a preventative, helps.
DELLINGER: At this time, are you engaging in a life that is similar to what your life was like prior to the pandemic?
HANDSEL: I think so. I feel like we are finally getting back to normal. Like, we started going back to the community center, volunteering with things again, and we’ve been traveling. My son, for two years, he didn’t have a birthday party, and we’re considering one this year. So, you know, that’s nice. (laughs) And traveling, we started traveling again. Still with the masks and hand sanitizer, but, [01:16:00] yeah, we’re still traveling. So that’s good. I feel like we are returning to life. But then you might be at the gas station or at Walgreens and you hear someone cough and you kind of jump. So it’s still there, kind of in the back of your mind.
48
DELLINGER: Yeah. All right, Mrs. Handsel, we’re down to our last two questions. For future generations of Muscogee who may find themselves faced with a global health and economic event such as the COVID-19 pandemic, what words of advice do you have for them about surviving and finding life again after such a catastrophic event?
HANDSEL: The number one thing I would advise, try to see things from every angle, even if it’s not an angle you agree with. You know, what could happen to this? What could happen to this? You know, am I still going to be able to do that? And this sounds a little silly, but I would recommend a book, World War Z by [01:17:00] Max Brooks. And it’s about zombies, but if you take out that word “zombie” and replace it with “virus” or “pandemic,” it makes a lot of sense, because he’s one of those writers that will see things from different angles. And it will help you prepare for things. The CDC has used his work before. So I really like how he sees a pandemic and how the world would react to it. So that would be my advice, look into Max Brooks’ writing. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay, that’s really interesting. So I will definitely be checking that out. Now, they made that book into a movie.
HANDSEL: It’s not like the book. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, yeah, the books are always better. But am I thinking of the right movie, though, with Brad Pitt?
49
HANDSEL: Yeah, but, yeah, apples and oranges. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay, all right. I’ll be checking out the book, then.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Okay, great. So, in closing, is there anything else that you want to say about your experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic?
HANDSEL: [01:18:00] I think it’s still something that we’re going to have some aftereffects with, even decades down the line. Especially as far as education. Some students missed out on some milestones during that time. That milestone where they had the chance to be a good reader, that milestone where they learn social interactions with their peers. And I hope that we can catch those and kind of fix what they missed out on. But, yeah, I feel like it’ll probably affect us for a really long time.
DELLINGER: Okay. All right, well, this has been fantastic. Mvto again, for your time here this morning, and sharing your experiences and thoughts about COVID-19 and the pandemic, and you continue to stay well.
HANDSEL: Oh, thank you. You, too.
END OF INTERVIEW
50
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department Oral History Program
“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”
As Remembered by: Mrs. Jennifer Handsel
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: January 7, 2023
Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is January 7, 2023, and I am in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at Memorial Middle School, interviewing Muscogee citizen Mrs. Jennifer Handsel. I’m performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation historic and cultural preservation department for the oral history project titled “A 21st Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation against COVID-19.”
Mrs. Handsel, thank you so much for taking time out of a Saturday morning to be here and to do this interview with me. We’re going to begin with some questions about your life, your personal background. And so let’s start with, where were you born and where did you spend your childhood?
JENNIFER HANDSEL: Okay, I was born at Claremore Indian Hospital. But we lived in Kellyville, Oklahoma. I lived there until second [00:01:00] grade, so I would have been about seven, I believe. And then we moved to Tulsa.
DELLINGER: Do you remember anything about being in Kellyville?
HANDSEL: Yeah. I think a good chunk of my memories are from Kellyville, because I remember it was a dirt road for the longest time. I think the last couple years I lived there, they finally paved it. It was my grandma’s house, we lived with her, and it was a stretch of road, and all of her brothers and sisters lived on that road. So each house along that, for about a mile, was, you know, one of her sisters or one of her brothers. So, that’s
1
where I grew up, that’s where I learned how to ride my bike, and all good, fun outside stuff.
DELLINGER: Yeah, great, so you have fond memories of that time, up until seven. And then you came to Tulsa. So, tell me a little bit about life in Tulsa, your childhood here in Tulsa.
HANDSEL: It was a big adjustment, because I always compare it to [00:02:00] I went from Kellyville where there’s, like, coyotes at night, to Tulsa where there’s, like, ambulance sirens at night. So it was a big change to kind of get used to that. And we lived right along Riverside, so that was nice. We still played outside a lot at the time. Just little subtleties that were different.
DELLINGER: Where did you spend your school life here in Tulsa, starting with elementary school?
HANDSEL: The elementary that we finally—when we found an apartment and we started back to school, was McClure Elementary. So I went there, I was third grade when I started, and I finished out there at fifth grade. I graduated and then went on to middle school, which was Nimitz Middle School. And, unfortunately, that school’s not open anymore, but I really liked that school. And then on to Memorial [00:03:00] High School after that.
2
DELLINGER: Okay. I want you to share a little bit, if you will, about your parents. If you’ll just tell me a little bit about each one of them, including their names, where they were from, their occupations, things like that.
HANDSEL: Okay. My mom was Darlene Parkinson before she got married, she became Darlene Tate, and she was from Bristow, Oklahoma. And she went to NSU for college and then did some social work after that. And my dad, he lived in Berryhill, Oklahoma, and his name was John Tate. And for a good chunk of his life he was a brick mason.
DELLINGER: Oh, okay. Now, do you still have your parents with you?
HANDSEL: No, they have both passed away. My mom first in 2003. [00:04:00] Yeah, 2003. And then my dad a few years after that.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, given your Muscogee heritage, where does that heritage come from? Who does that come from?
HANDSEL: I would have to say my aunt overall. My mom was more involved with the church, so I feel like, from around age twelve, thirteen, we spent a lot of time at the church. But then, when I moved in with her after my mom passing, she and my brother became really deeply involved with the more traditional side of our culture.
DELLINGER: Okay. And so, now, were both of your parents Muscogee?
3
HANDSEL: No, my dad wasn’t, so I’m only half.
DELLINGER: Okay. Okay. And what about siblings? Do you have siblings? If so, will you share a little bit about each one of them?
HANDSEL: I have an older brother. There is a fifteen-year age difference [00:05:00] there. His name’s James Parkinson, and he’s a military police officer, I believe. And he was with me, we grew up in Kellyville together. Right as I was born, it seemed like he was getting ready for college, so we didn’t really spend a lot of time together, as much as I did with my younger brother. He’s three years younger than me, and he was named after my dad, so he’s John Tate Jr., but we call him Sonny. My grandma wanted to name him Sonny, so I’ve never referred to him as John, he’s Sonny.
DELLINGER: And do you have a close relationship with your two brothers at this point?
HANDSEL: My older brother, no. He did the genealogy background DNA test and [00:06:00] found out he had a different heritage and kind of went that direction. And so me and my younger brother are much more closer.
DELLINGER: I see. I see, okay. And grandparents, let’s talk about your grandparents. Will you share a little bit about your grandparents? Again, if you can share their names and where they were from?
4
HANDSEL: Okay. My grandma on my mom’s side was Irene Parkinson, and before she was married, she was Irene Felix. And she is from Bristow/Depew. Or, I’m sorry, Bristow/Kellyville. So she grew up there. And my grandfather, who I didn’t know, he passed away in 1977. His name was Noah Parkinson.
DELLINGER: Oh, there’s that name, Noah.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Who we’re going to talk about here in a little bit, we’re going to talk about Mr. Noah. [00:07:00] And so, those are your grandparents from your mother’s side. So did you never know your grandparents from your father’s side?
HANDSEL: On my father’s side, my grandma was Delia Tate, we just called her Dee. She passed away when I was about six, so I do have a few memories of being in her garden. And she grew a lot of vegetables, so I remember going out there and eating everything. But, again, I didn’t know my grandfather. He had passed away before I was born, as well, and I have a hard time remembering his name. I think his name was Greg Tate, but he just wasn’t really brought up a lot, that I remember, as a kid.
DELLINGER: Do you remember or know what any of your grandparents’ occupations were?
5
HANDSEL: My grandfather worked at the Ford dealership in Bristow, he was a mechanic.
DELLINGER: That’s your mom’s dad?
HANDSEL: Yes. And then my [00:08:00] grandma worked at Woolsworth, I think, when she was probably around my age, in Bristow. And as far as my father’s side, I cannot remember. I think my grandfather might have been a mechanic, possibly, because I know a lot of my uncles are. And so I think they were kind of following after him.
DELLINGER: Right, right. Okay, I want to go back to—so, you mentioned that you went to high school at Tulsa Memorial. Will you share a little bit about what those years were like for you? You know, what your experience was during that time in your life?
HANDSEL: Um, difficult. I think I was a difficult child, difficult student. That’s one of the reasons I became a teacher, so I can help students that were like me. (laughs) I didn’t do too well in school. Just, I’m not sure. You know, it was kind of, I guess, little bit of [00:09:00] ADHD and then also, just, I wasn’t really fitting in as well. So I went to Memorial until I finished my junior year, and then I was homeschooled my senior year and got my GED a little bit before graduation in May.
DELLINGER: And that was what year that you graduated?
6
HANDSEL: 2003.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, it sounds like you did struggle a little bit during those years. Were you involved in any school activities at all?
HANDSEL: No, and I think that could have been, probably, one thing that might have helped, if I had been more involved in school activities. But, yeah, it was just kind of, go to school, come back home. Which, you know, that happens to a lot of students.
DELLINGER: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so after high school graduation, where did life take you?
HANDSEL: My mom passed away. [00:10:00] A little bit after—a few months after I turned eighteen, I had been living with my aunt since May of 2003, and my mom passed away that October. So I was still with my aunt, and I was at that age where she told me, “Okay, you have to go to college and get a job.” (laughs) So I went and got both. I worked at Walmart. My aunt had a friend, she always told me ever since I was about five that I could always have a job at Walmart, so I applied there and started out as a cashier, and then moved on into pharmacy shortly after that. And as far as college, I enrolled in TCC to take all the basic courses, basic required courses.
DELLINGER: And, for those that don’t know, TCC is Tulsa Community College.
7
HANDSEL: Yes.
DELLINGER: Yeah. Which, at one time, was Tulsa Junior College. HANDSEL: Yes. I remember TJC, too. (laughs)
DELLINGER: I want to stop here, just for a minute. So you keep mentioning this aunt, and obviously she was very important in your life and influential in your life. Will you please share a little bit about her? What was her name, and—
HANDSEL: Okay. She’s my mom’s sister. She was three years older than her. I’m sorry, two years older than her. Her name’s Joy Reynolds. And she worked at St. John’s for 39 years as an RN. She worked on one of the surgical wards that they had there. And as of now, even after retirement, she’s still a nurse two days a week at St. Francis.
DELLINGER: Okay, so she’s been here in Tulsa. Okay, that’s great. Okay, so, you just shared a little bit [00:12:00] about kind of where life took you after high school. You went to TCC, you got your basics. And then, when you finished up at TCC, what did you do after that?
HANDSEL: I went on to NSU. And, at that point, I still didn’t know what I wanted to do, and I had a lot of people telling me, Oh, you should go to law school, or, You should get
8
your degree in this, or, Get your degree in that. And I wasn’t sure. So I was good at reading. I remember in high school I got a degree, I was in the top five percent of Oklahoma readers, so I was like, I can read, so I’ll go get a degree in English.
So I worked for about two years on that. But still, there was still that question, you know, after I get that degree, what am I going to do with it? And so I had my brother, my older brother, kind of pushing me a little bit towards law school. I wasn’t sure if I had a big interest in it. So after [00:13:00] I graduated, I kind of put out some feelers to see if I wanted to go on to law school, and I got accepted to a university, but I just wasn’t ready for law school. I guess I wasn’t feeling it. (laughs)
So after graduation, I moved up to Massachusetts for about six months, just to kind of get a new experience, and my older brother was living up there at the time. And so I thought, oh, maybe there’s a few schools I might be interested in. And so I kind of was researching all that, but the northeast weather got to me and I had to come back to Oklahoma. (laughter) It was too cold.
DELLINGER: So then, what year would that have been, when you came back to Oklahoma?
HANDSEL: Let’s see, I want to say it was around 2008 [00:14:00] that I came back, I think it was. Yeah. So I was, yeah, a little homesick, and then missing the Oklahoma weather, so I came back in 2008. And I asked my job—I actually told my friend, because
9
I had been working at Walmart as a pharmacy tech since I was eighteen, and I had mentioned to my friend I was thinking about coming back. And a couple hours later, my boss called and told me if I wanted my job back I could have it. (laughter) So I was like, “Okay.”
So I came back, and I continued my work in pharmacy, as a pharmacy tech with Walmart. And it got to the point where, working there for so many years, I transferred two different stores. So I was not based in Sapulpa, I moved up here to Tulsa. And then I would also go to different stores to either help out if they were short-staffed, or if [00:15:00] they had technicians that had just got certified that needed training or were, you know, studying to be pharmacy techs, I would train them.
DELLINGER: Okay. And so, I know somewhere in here, now, we’re getting close, I think, when you met Mr. Handsel.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. I met him in third grade. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Oh, wow! Okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah, we went to the same elementary, we both went to McClure Elementary. And we both went to Nimitz Middle School together. So there was a very short time in fifth grade where we were boyfriend and girlfriend for a little bit, and then that didn’t (laughs) work out at the time, so then it was just kind of like, “Oh, I don’t like
10
you,” you know, teasing and stuff. So, yeah, after middle school we both went to different high schools, and I think, yeah, it was a few years after I came back from Massachusetts, [00:16:00] it was 2011. Me and my friends were out downtown, they had, like, concerts. We were going to go on Friday and see bands play. And we were—let’s see, I think it was a couple businesses down from Cains Ballroom, and there’s a crowd of people, the band’s playing, and I strike up a conversation, and he mentions that he was a math tutor. And I was going back to TCC, I was thinking about being a pharmacist. Since I had been in pharmacy for so long, I had the pharmacists, Oh, well, you should go back and be a pharmacist. So I was like, I need a math tutor. So when he mentioned he was a math tutor, I said, “Well, what’s your name? I might come up to the TCC math lab if I need help.” And he said, “Chris Handsel.” And I remembered his name instantly because he used to tease me when we were children. [00:17:00] And I said, “Oh, I know you, I don’t like you.” (laughs)
DELLINGER: Oh, my gosh.
HANDSEL: So it was meant in kind of a jokingly way. But we kept in touch, and then we started dating a little bit after that. (laughs)
DELLINGER: That’s a great story.
HANDSEL: I know. (laughs)
11
DELLINGER: That’s a great story.
HANDSEL: I always tell that story to my middle school students when they’re teasing each other.
DELLINGER: (laughs) Y’all might be married one day.
HANDSEL: Yeah, you don’t know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Yeah, that’s a great story. Okay, so you’re back in school and you’re still trying to figure some things out for a career. So then what happens after that?
HANDSEL: Still working in the pharmacy, and then I had a little studio apartment around 61st and Memorial. And Chris had moved in there, and it seemed like I got really busy as far as training. I was working overtime. If there was a snowstorm and the pharmacy was open, they’d call me first to come in. Like, [00:18:00] so I had to put some of the chemistry classes I was taking on pause. And it was also, you know, it was something I kind of wanted to do anyway, because I am not a big math person. And I was like, You know, this is just not something I’m getting—I just don’t feel it, I’m not interested in it enough. So I just didn’t see being a pharmacist as something I wanted to do, so I started thinking, What should I do? So I’m still at that point, What am I going to do when I grow up? Even though I was grown. (laughs)
12
DELLINGER: And what age were you by this point?
HANDSEL: Oh, around twenty-eight to thirty, I was still thinking, you know, I need to do something, what should I do? But Walmart, that’s what I loved about working in the pharmacy, they were always there. (laughs) Just so I would have something to do. And then Chris and I got married in [00:19:00] 2012 on May 12, so that was a day after my
birthday. So every year I celebrate my birthday, Mother’s Day, and my anniversary, like, three days in a row.
DELLINGER: Wow, that’s a busy month.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs) And so we had been married for about—oh, let’s see, that would be about seven, eight months, and then I found out I was pregnant with Noah. So I just worked with Walmart as long as I could, I think about a month until my due date, and then I took my leave and I extended my leave after he was born, because I wasn’t ready to go to work yet. And so Chris had graduated from OSU, he had already had a bachelor’s in mechanical engineering, he had finished up his master’s in aerospace engineering, and so there was just [00:20:00] you know we had the conversation that I could be a stay-at-home mom and then he would work, and so that would work out for a few years until Noah was old enough to start elementary school, or preschool. So that was our plan. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Good. Since you’ve mentioned Noah, will you give Noah’s full name?
13
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. Noah Quinn Handsel.
DELLINGER: Okay, and Noah is how old now?
HANDSEL: He is nine.
DELLINGER: Okay. And where does he goes to school?
HANDSEL: He goes to school at Council Oak Elementary.
DELLINGER: Very good, here in Tulsa.
HANDSEL: Yes, yeah, here in Tulsa.
DELLINGER: And so Noah is—I mean, I just kind of assumed, earlier, but is he named after your grandfather?
HANDSEL: A bit. We were very democratic about how we named him. Chris and I both made a list of our top five favorite names and we combined the list, so we had a list of about ten names and we voted separately and compared what name was our favorite. And so [00:21:00] Noah was our second-favorite on both of our little sheets. So I picked it
14
because of my grandfather that I didn’t know but I’d heard good stories about, and so we went with Noah as his first name.
DELLINGER: Very good, that’s a great story, too.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Very good. Okay, so, I’d like for you, if you would, to talk a—you know, from our previous conversation, you had told me you went back to school, you went back to NSU. And you did pursue another degree. So let’s talk about that.
HANDSEL: So when Noah was, I think he was about one year old, around that age, we needed things to do. He was getting older, so I could start doing a little more with him. And I enrolled him in baby gymnastics. And so he would go there once a week, and they would work on just strengthening your muscles, getting them moving more, and being more confident with [00:22:00] moving. And I really enjoyed those classes. I enjoyed taking them and being part of it. And so they had an opening there, and I asked, you know, “What experience do you need to teach a baby how to do a forward roll?” So it was training on the job, so I applied, and so I would teach classes there a couple times a week.
And so it was perfect, because it wasn’t a full-time job. It was hardly a part-time job, because it was just a few hours every other day. So it worked out. I could bring Noah up
15
there with me if I needed to, so I really enjoyed it. And I was there for, I think, a year or two. And then the company was bought out by another group of people, so I decided, at that point, I was like, Well, you know, I should go back to school. And I was enjoying teaching so much it finally clicked. I was like, That’s what I want to do. [00:23:00] Like, being around all these little kids and they always come up to me, tell me their life story. So I was like, that’s what I’m going to do. So I went back to NSU and I enrolled in their College of Education.
DELLINGER: And so how long were you working on that degree?
HANDSEL: I had to take it slow at first. I started in 2018, I think it’s only a two-year degree, but I just finished in 2021. I graduated in December of 2021. So I didn’t take full time classes at first, just because I had home life and Noah and everything.
DELLINGER: Right. Yeah, and you already had your first two years, so that’s why it only took you—you only had two more years to finish that degree. So, being a wife and a mom and you go back to college, did you do in-person classes or did you do online classes?
HANDSEL: It was a combination. There were times where I did have to go up there to NSU [00:24:00] and take in-person classes, but then the pandemic hit, so NSU made all of their classes online. And right as they made everything online, I wasn’t taking any internships at the time, so I didn’t have to worry about coming up to any of the schools to
16
shadow any of the teachers. And I could stay at home with Noah, so I didn’t have to worry about anybody watching him while I was in class. So it was just kind of, you know, log on at a certain time and learn from home.
DELLINGER: Yes. Where did you do your student teaching?
HANDSEL: A few different places. You have to do three different internships, and the lengths get a little bit longer each time. My first internship was fourth grade reading at Hamilton Elementary in Tulsa. My second internship was first grade, and that was in Sapulpa, Oklahoma at Jefferson Elementary. And then my third internship, [00:25:00] which was the longest one, was here at Memorial Middle School, teaching seventh-grade geography.
DELLINGER: Very good. I just thought of something. So, you were in school when the pandemic hit during 2020. Were you concerned at any point that the pandemic was going to interrupt your process—because the schools were closed, initially. You would start your student teaching in 2021. In 2020, was that ever a concern for you?
HANDSEL: It was, because I did my first internship right before the pandemic hit, I think it was in 2019. I did my first internship that spring, and then I took a break to take a little bit more classes, and then I did my second internship. The pandemic had hit, [00:26:00] everyone had gone on lockdown, schools were out, and then right after, I want to say that first fall semester—so that would be, I think it was 2022, that spring— that’s
17
when I did my second internship. So we had been living with COVID for about a year. I go to first grade in Sapulpa and all the children are masked. And I was, I was concerned. I was like, Well, am I going to have to log onto Zoom and just kind of watch another teacher teach online? I was wondering, like, how is that going to work? I’m not going to get that social interaction in person with these students. And I think that’s how I learn best, is being right there doing—so, yeah, that was concerning.
DELLINGER: When did NSU go back to in-person?
HANDSEL: They gave us options first. I want to say it was after that first year, so [00:27:00] I think 2021, they gave us the option. They said, You can still stay online or you can come back up here. I think if you wanted to stay online you had to pay, like, an additional fifty dollars per class, because they were having to have all these students register with Zoom. So you just didn’t get a free Zoom account, you got the official Zoom account, which I think has a few more options. They needed us to have that if we were teaching and using Zoom at the same time. So I did start out, I think, taking a few online classes, but then I also had to do my internship in person.
DELLINGER: Right. And then I know during 2020 there were universities that didn’t get to have graduation ceremonies, and so in 2021 were you able to do the actual walk and have a graduation ceremony?
18
HANDSEL: Let’s see, that would have been—yeah, that was in December. And mine was smaller, because it was in December, so [00:28:00] I didn’t have the big one at the end of May. It was a smaller group of students and it was in a smaller building. But, yes, we did get to go up there and do the whole ceremony process and everything. So, yeah, it was just, masks were on until you took your graduation picture. You could take it off for a second, take your picture, put it back on. (laughter)
DELLINGER: Okay. All right. So you did an internship here at Memorial Middle School, and you’re still here at Memorial Middle School. So I’d like to know what it is about this school that made you want to stay here and start your career here.
HANDSEL: Going to college, we have a lot of our professors that used to be teachers. And so we’d get the good stories that, you know, they’re very heartwarming, but then [00:29:00] we’d also kind of get some battle stories as well. Where it’s not just students that—kind of some negative stories about how hard it is to teach sometimes. But also interactions with staff. And so sometimes I’d hear horror stories about how teachers were treating each other, or, certain schools, they don’t treat their teachers as well. And that really scared me, I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, I don’t want to be in a school with that kind of negative energy.
So, thankfully, all the schools I went to, I really enjoyed them. I didn’t get that feeling when I was at their locations. I came here to Memorial, and I’m watching not just my teacher that I’m shadowing, but also all the other teachers, when I see them in the hall or
19
the break room. And I really liked just the energy that they all had. It was hard coming back from COVID, having to [00:30:00] kind of get students used to being in classes. And just the amount of work to get everyone caught up, and these teachers were facing it all, but they were still happy and getting along and working together, and I really liked that. So right before my internship was up, I asked the principal at the time if I could stay once I graduated to be a teacher, and he said yes. (laughs)
DELLINGER: And so what have you been doing here at Memorial Middle School? Because I know you’ve taught some different subjects.
HANDSEL: I did. The deal with the previous principal was, he was like, “Yes, you’re more than welcome to stay here.” He said, “I have a few openings,” and he named them off, and they were both math. So sixth grade math was available, and he told me, he was like, “You know, you’ve already told me that [00:31:00] math is not your strong area, but we do need a math teacher. If you can just get these kids through this semester in the fall, we’ll have some openings that, you know, you can pick from those subjects.” That would be the 2022 fall semester. So I was like, Okay, I can do math. It’s sixth grade math, I can do that for a semester. And I got them through. And I think out of about 190 or so students, every student’s grade went up once I showed up in January. So that was good to know. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, I mean, that’s a success story, for you and for all those students.
20
HANDSEL: Yeah, so they just, they needed to have a consistent teacher, not just substitutes. So I think we kind of helped each other, and I became a better teacher. Because coming in mid-year is way different than starting at the beginning of the year with students. So I learned a [00:32:00] lot on the job. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Right. And so now you’re teaching seventh grade geography, and so what is it about geography, that you enjoy teaching that to young people?
HANDSEL: I just, I remember when I was in middle school, all our teachers would have the maps on the wall, and having ADHD, I was listening less to the teacher, but I was looking at all those maps. So I always feel like that was something I was really strong with. I’m really good at, like, navigation, reading maps, and I always had an interest in traveling and culture, and that was probably my number one interest. And history. I mean, all of that’s geography. And I just felt like, if that was my strong suit, that’s mine, is geography and history. So I could come into a class, and they’d say, “Okay, well, you’re teaching about Europe today.” And [00:33:00] I could, you know, I could pull it off if I needed to without a lesson plan, because it’s just, it’s all in there.
DELLINGER: Yeah, very good. So it does, it helps when you’re passionate about something, right?
HANDSEL: Yes, yeah.
21
DELLINGER: That you’re doing. Yeah. I want to go back to Chris and Noah. We talked a little bit about him, but I wanted to give you another opportunity to share a little bit more about these guys who are in your life, and, especially Noah. If you’d like to talk a little bit more about Noah and his life, that’d be great.
HANDSEL: Okay. I’m trying to think where to start with Noah. I think he’s very interesting, and I’m sure all parents say that, but I like his creativity. He’s always been very creative and outside-of-the-box thinking sometimes, which, I think that keeps everything interesting, especially with his drawing and his art. I remember during the [00:34:00] Muscogee (Creek) festival that they have in the summer, before COVID hit, he had entered a drawing, a painting, for their art contest, and I want to say he was about five when he did that painting. And so they had everything by ages, I think you could start submitting stuff when you were about two or three, and so they had it broken into about four or five age groups with different areas, like painting, photography, or even making dresses or beadwork. Sculptures.
And so we get there, and they have everything on display, all of the different art, and I’m walking around looking for his, and I was like, “That would be cute, if he won, you know, maybe for his age group. That would make me really happy.” And we go over there, and I see these big words next to his picture, and it says, “Best in show.” So it was just a [00:35:00] little—it was butcher paper that he had been coloring on, and we had been designing the float for the parade for the Tulsa Creek Community Center, and he had just got some of that butcher paper and some of that red and black paint and did kind
22
of an almost Jackson Pollock-like painting. And so he had won best of show at five and beat out teenagers and other students that had been at this for years. And I was just like, Oh, gosh. I was very excited. I saved everything, even the envelope that he got that said “best in show,” that’s in his little memory box.
DELLINGER: Yes, absolutely. So who does Noah get those abilities from, do you think? Are you—
HANDSEL: I think both. Honestly, I think Chris, he’s really good at pastel drawing and everything. And I’ve gotten comments before about—I used to do some little side work where I would decorate for parties, and I’ve gone as far as getting [00:36:00] cardboard
and making cutout little dinosaurs and painting them and everything. And so I think both of us, I think he kind of got that eye for things.
DELLINGER: Good. Does Noah like school?
HANDSEL: He does. It was a little bit of a struggle at first, because he had grown up with me in the home, and going out and doing all these adult things. Especially being an only child, sometimes I kind of think he’s a little bit more mature. And then also he started late, having that fall birthday, so he’s one of the oldest kids in class, and it was kind of a struggle at first for him to get used to being with a whole bunch of other kids during the day without me. (laughs) But I want to say he got better after the pandemic about going to school and liking it. And then he’s struggled with reading, he was
23
struggling with reading right before the pandemic. And then a little bit during the pandemic, and then once he came back, I [00:37:00] think he got a little bit stronger, being back in person, and with all the tutoring and everything. So he’s gotten to the point, I think he knows he can read, and I know he likes it a little bit more because he can read everything.
DELLINGER: Right, right. Yeah. Okay, well, is there anything else you’d like to share about Chris or Noah? If not, we’ll—
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah, I talked a whole bunch about Noah and I forgot about Chris. (laughter) I can throw out some of his hobbies that he likes. I always tell everybody that we’re kind of well-rounded parents, because I’m more of the reading and history side when it comes to Noah’s homework, and then Chris is more of the math and science and physics part of it. And that kind of definitely shows in his hobbies, he’s really interested in kind of the STEM part of things. Like, drones and building things. He’s definitely one of the drone hobbyists. And then, also, he kind of likes going out and exploring [00:38:00] and building devices. Gold panning is kind of a hobby of his, so he likes kind of building all those little Schulz boxes and filtration systems to get the gold. So that’s kind of been his hobby lately. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Very interesting.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
24
DELLINGER: Yeah, okay. Well, very good. Yeah, all right. Well, what about you? Do you have any hobbies, or activities that you enjoy?
HANDSEL: I feel like being a first-year teacher I kind of had to put those on pause for right now until I can get in my groove, which, I’m getting there. But I actually, I mentioned before I liked making things, just for different parties or decorating for things. And I really do enjoy that. I’ve made dinosaur costumes out of cardboard and paint and I just, I love doing that [00:39:00] stuff. You know, people will say, Oh, I need a wreath for Christmas, and they’ll give me the material, and I’ll put it together and make it for them. Or sewing, I think that’s a good—I learned how to make masks during the pandemic, and I even had my own business card. So it was like, “Masks by Jen,” so fabric masks in any size or fabric or color. I was selling those online for a while, so that was a good little business venture I did during the pandemic. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Yeah, that’s very industrious, right there. (laughs)
HANDSEL: Yeah, I mean, I was selling and making, you know, dozens a day. So that was helpful. And people were kind of keeping each other from getting sick by wearing them, so I was happy to do it. But sewing, I would say sewing, too, is one of my favorite hobbies to do, because it’s very relaxing.
DELLINGER: How old were you when you learned to sew?
25
HANDSEL: Just a couple years ago that I officially got good. I knew the basics because [00:40:00] my middle school had an economics class after school, and so we learned the basics of how to use a machine, how to make a pillow and do all that little stitching. And then a couple years ago I asked for a sewing machine and I had to go back and remember how to do all that stuff. But I did, I remembered the basics, and then kind of just learned
along the way with the rest of it. Which, I’m still learning, but I’ve gotten to the point where I was making ribbon skirts. I made one for my aunt for Christmas a couple years ago. So I really do, that’s my hobby, I think.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, what community activities are you involved with?
HANDSEL: I was just elected the secretary for the Tulsa Creek Community Center, but before that, I helped out with a lot of different activities. I started out teaching yoga and gymnastics to some of the members, [00:41:00] and then also tai chi. And we even did a
wellness class, so there’s that teaching aspect coming out. (laughs) And then I also helped a lot with the youth, doing the junior Olympics, and also planning just different events, the back-to-school events. I really like that. My big thing is getting youth involved with the community center, so when they’re adults, they still want to volunteer and give back. So that’s kind of also my side projects there, too.
DELLINGER: Yes, yes. So you have a very busy life. Yeah, that’s good. Okay, well, I’ll tell you what, I think what we’re going to do at this point is we’re going to transition into
26
some questions about COVID-19, the pandemic, your experiences. But thank you so much for sharing these things about yourself and your family.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah, you’re welcome.
DELLINGER: [00:42:00] Mrs. Handsel, when in 2020 do you remember first hearing about the COVID-19 virus, and how did you hear about it?
HANDSEL: I actually remember seeing a little news snippet back in, like, November or early December on Facebook. I love reading the news articles on Facebook, and that’s just where I get my information. I would sit on my couch, drink my coffee, and go through there and read all the articles. And health, science, stuff like that’s always top on my list when I read the news. And I remember seeing a little snippet about a virus. A few people had gotten sick, and nothing worried about it spreading. You know, just one of those little mystery viruses you hear about every now and then. And I remember thinking, Oh, you know, that’s unfortunate, but I just kind of put it out of my mind. I didn’t think it would spread, even though, you know, it did.
And then [00:43:00] you start hearing about it again at the beginning of 2020. You’d hear little snippets here and there. Oh, that virus in China is spreading. It’s here, it’s in San Francisco, it’s in New York. So it started getting worse and worse. And I forgot to mention this in my personal interview, but I am a big germophobe. I think that’s kind of part of the obsessive compulsive disorder kind of coming out, but I’m very organized.
27
Clean, neat, sanitized. And that was probably one of my biggest fears, was a virus like that coming out.
DELLINGER: Yeah.
HANDSEL: I know I thought about it even before. I was like, If something ever happened like that, how would we avoid getting sick? We’d have to wipe our groceries down and not go out. So I had thought about these things before, just being that minded person. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Wow, okay. Yes. Once the virus [00:44:00] was here in Oklahoma, Muscogee (Creek) Nation, what were some of the initial conversations that you had with your family and friends? And even coworkers? Well, you wouldn’t have been—you weren’t teaching at that time, yet, when it first came here.
HANDSEL: No. Classmates at college.
DELLINGER: Classmates, yeah, classmates. What were some of your initial conversations with these folks about the virus?
HANDSEL: My first one would have been with my family. I told my husband, because he knew how I was about getting sick, I told him, I said, “We have to be strict about this.” People were still debating over masks at that time. Should we wear them? I’m not
28
going to wear them, you know. So I told him, I said, “We’re going to be strict about this. Here’s your hand sanitizer, here’s your antibacterial wipes, here’s Clorox wipes. You’re keeping all this in your car. We’re going to wear a mask. If we’re outside, we’re wearing
a mask. You go to QuikTrip, we’re wearing our masks and washing our hands and everything.” I mean, I think I was a little [00:45:00] overboard, but we didn’t get sick. So that was our main thing, I was like, “I don’t want you to get sick, I don’t want Noah to get sick.” So that was my main concern, was protecting my family.
DELLINGER: Right. But do you think you were overboard? I mean, given what was— HANDSEL: We didn’t get sick.
DELLINGER: Yeah.
HANDSEL: Yeah. I guess, you know, some people might have seen it that way. I didn’t because we weren’t getting sick, and nobody near us was getting sick. My aunt’s the same way, she, you know, works in a hospital, so she had that protocol. That was just part of her daily work, was that type of protocol. And it kind of got a little stressful, because her ward at St. Francis became a COVID ward, so she was going in there with the people that were sick and the ones that were extremely sick.
DELLINGER: Yeah, so she was a front line—
29
HANDSEL: Yeah, she was.
DELLINGER: One of our front line workers.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Okay. Well, when local and state governments began lockdowns and shelter-in-place orders, [00:46:00] how did those—just the words, how did those words make you feel?
HANDSEL: It was a little scary, because it’s kind of like all those movies about pandemics. We’re told to stay where we’re at, things must be bad, you know? I was really worried. And you’d hear in the news, they were keeping a death tally on CNN, the people that were infected, the people that were dying. So it was scary. I mean, and then you’ve got your kid and you start thinking, Well, what if they got sick? You know, they were talking about children getting sick and passing away. So that—scary. Frightening. Would be the words.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, did you, Chris, and Noah, were you all able to shelter in place at home for a period of time?
HANDSEL: We were. Noah and I definitely were, with classes being cancelled. School went online. Well, school wasn’t cancelled, school went online, virtually. I think Chris, a
30
few times, they would have to COVID—but when the tests came out and [00:47:00] even before that, they were doing temperature tests before the tests were available. So they were testing temperatures before you went into the building. If one person was infected, they would shut the office down. You could work from home. They tried to bring everyone in as much as possible, but sometimes it just wasn’t. So they did have to work from home options.
DELLINGER: And we—I didn’t ask you where Chris works, the name of his company? HANDSEL: CUST-O-FAB in Sand Springs.
DELLINGER: Okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah. They have a lot of business kind of in the oil industry.
DELLINGER: So, for him, there were times when the office shut down and he did have to be at home?
HANDSEL: Mm-hmm.
DELLINGER: So what was that like for the three of you, being home twenty-four/seven? What was that experience like?
31
HANDSEL: I liked it. I mean, because I got to see him more. He worked crazy hours, sometimes he’d have to work twelve-, fourteen-hour days. Sometimes he’d be at work on the weekends, working until, like, one or two in the morning. [00:48:00] So it was nice to see him there at home and talk to him. I felt bad, because I knew he had to focus on his work and, you know, we’ve got Noah and me kind of running around and trying to do our thing. So I was kind of like, “All right, we all need to focus,” and it’s kind of hard when you’re with your family, you just want to hang out.
DELLINGER: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like a long extended weekend, almost. HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: What was it that made you realize the severity of the virus?
HANDSEL: I think it was a couple things. Kind of during and then even after, I think having news stations show all those people that were getting infected. I mean, it was just numbers constantly going up, and then the death total was mentioned constantly. Even if you weren’t watching TV, you’d see it in news articles. You know, just so many people infected in Oklahoma. “This many people have died in Oklahoma.” So, I mean, that showed the severity, because what other [00:49:00] time—I couldn’t remember, where we had been counting people that were getting sick. And even closing down essential businesses that we needed. So that kind of showed me the severity of it.
32
DELLINGER: Right. So you talked about how COVID impacted your ability to go to school and for Noah to go to school and Chris to work. What other ways did COVID-19 change life for you and your family?
HANDSEL: Just being at home with school. And even though I’m a teacher and I was going to school to be a teacher, it was hard. I’ve had several people that are either tutors or teachers, they have made little comments about, I can teach thirty kids in a classroom, but teaching my own child is a different story. And it is, because we’re more comfortable with each other, and I [00:50:00] think he knows, “If I don’t want to do this, I can just act this way. And mom will go along with it.” And I’m like, “No, we have to get this work done, you’ve got to learn this.” And it wasn’t an issue of me teaching the material, it was just, you know, sometimes he just didn’t want to do it. (laughs) So it was kind of like a little personality war going on there.
DELLINGER: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that would be a big adjustment. Your mom, and then all of the sudden, your mom and teacher.
HANDSEL: Yeah. (laughs) And so, yeah, that was just—and then getting him on, keeping him on a schedule. Because he—you know, sometimes classes didn’t start online until nine o’clock, he thought he could sleep until 8:45. And I’m like, “No, you’ve got to get up just like before.” (laughs)
33
DELLINGER: Yes. Yes. How did you and Chris, when you did have to leave the house, especially during that first year, before the vaccines rolled out, how did you maneuver that?
HANDSEL: Only go out if you needed something super important, and when we did go out, [00:51:00] masks. I remember sometimes I would double up on masks. Like, I’d have a surgical-grade mask plus one of the ones I was making, the fabric masks, together. I had gloves. Like, the latex gloves. And I would wear those out, but whenever we went out, let’s say for groceries, only one of us would go. So one person goes and gets everything. We bring it back and we were “Cloroxing” everything that came into the house. And then, you know, after that, don’t touch anything until you wash your hands. I mean, we were so strict about everything.
DELLINGER: Was there any eating out?
HANDSEL: I don’t think so. I don’t remember us—we didn’t, honestly. And I had family ask, once things kind of got a little bit better and people could go to restaurants and eat out, I still wouldn’t. Because they’d say, Oh, you just take your [00:52:00] mask off when you eat, but I was like, “No, that air is still there, you’re breathing it in.” I wouldn’t. I think I went out to eat, when it was summer, I would eat outdoors if they had outdoor table eating and stuff. That was fine. But as far as indoors, I don’t think we started doing that until about a year ago. Yeah. For the longest time, we didn’t eat inside anywhere.
34
DELLINGER: Okay. What is your knowledge and understanding about the COVID-19 virus, especially its effect on the human body if someone contracts it?
HANDSEL: When I was, I’d say around ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, I wanted to work for the CDC. I’d even gone as far as to go on vacations just to see the CDC. I remember, I was in eighth grade and I read a book this thick called The Coming Plague about viruses emerging and causing the same effect that COVID has. So I [00:53:00] feel like I knew a little bit more than some other people about how dangerous a situation like this could be, which is one reason we took all the precautions. And then hearing my aunt talk about people that were getting sick and everything, and how COVID doesn’t just make you sick like a cold or the flu. I mean, it’s gotten to the part where it can damage certain aspects of your brain or even your extremities and affect, like, your fingers and toes. I mean, it’s kind of an all-over virus, and so that’s just—I think it was just so much more. Had more negative effects than other viruses. So I tried to research as much as I could about it.
DELLINGER: Well, so you’ve said that you and Chris and Noah have stayed away from COVID, thank goodness. Have you had any family members or friends who have gone through COVID episodes?
HANDSEL: For a long [00:54:00] time, we didn’t. Even my aunt, working in the COVID ward, she never got it. And then fall of 2023—or, sorry, 2022, so just this last season—I think everyone got extremely lax. You know, there was people that kind of relaxed
35
masking and all that before, but it seems like our family kind of started getting lax about it this last fall. And I feel like as soon as we did, that’s when we got it.
Yeah. I wasn’t feeling well, and I started COVID testing myself every day with those little tests that the government sent out in the mail. I used one in the morning, used one in the evening, and it was, you know, negative, negative, for a couple days. And then that one morning it hit positive, and I kind of isolated myself from my family, but unfortunately it was too late. We had shared water bottles [00:55:00] and been near each other. We were all infected. So, yeah, then we had firsthand knowledge. (laughs)
DELLINGER: So what are the schools doing now? Like, in that situation, you have a teacher who’s tested COVID-positive, and you’re going to stay home. What is the school’s process now for that, as far as the students being exposed?
HANDSEL: Well, when I first started back in January of 2022, we were out for two weeks. School came back in session around January 3 or January 4, and school stayed out for almost two or three weeks, because so many teachers were sick and so many students were sick. We had to go virtually again for a short period. So my first few weeks back, I was in here in my room with my laptop on Zoom. So that was the protocol. Now, since we haven’t really had that many people get it, [00:56:00] when I got it, I let my principal know. I showed him my positive test result I got from the doctor. I was out for—I think I had to be out for five days. Once I came back, I think I had to wear a mask for another five days after that. So I just sent all my lesson plans electronically for the substitutes.
36
And same thing with students, they have to be out for a certain period, and when they come back, they have to wear a mask for five days.
DELLINGER: What has been your observance as far as parents notifying the school that their student has tested positive with COVID?
HANDSEL: Sometimes I don’t think it happens all the time, because, yeah, we’ll have some student, they’re not feeling well, they go home half the day, and then we find out later, oh, they had COVID and they were up here. So it doesn’t happen a lot, but it does
happen. I think when COVID was still on everyone’s minds, back in [00:57:00] early 2022, 2021, I think parents were more concerned and they would keep their kids out if we were in school at the time. But I think now, I think it’s getting lax as far as getting reported.
DELLINGER: Okay. Okay. I want to switch gears here a little bit and I want to ask you about the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, the Nation’s leadership. How do you think that they have performed throughout the pandemic, and especially, you know, going back to the early days of the pandemic, what are your thoughts about how they addressed the pandemic and took care of Muscogee people?
HANDSEL: I remember, like, my aunt, she’s involved with our church, Pickett Church in Sapulpa, Oklahoma, and I remember them [00:58:00] getting, like, supplies sent to them, like masks and gloves and hand sanitizer and all that stuff, for them to use for all the
37
members. So I really liked that, all those items getting sent out to help all the little local communities. And the community center in Tulsa, you know, we still have it, the little temperature check, you have to sign in. I really like that, just all those protocols in place to help kind of keep the virus from spreading. I feel like they addressed it really well. Sometimes I think they addressed it better than other governments, like the city of Tulsa, or even Oklahoma or the United States. I remember hearing that employees could work virtually as much as they could. I think that helped a lot. If you’re not around people you can’t really get sick, so I really like how they took care and addressed it more seriously.
DELLINGER: Are you familiar with any of the [00:59:00] I’m going to say COVID relief efforts that they provided to Muscogee citizens?
HANDSEL: Yes, I applied for it and I’m glad that they did that, because, you know, people couldn’t work. And depending on the type of job you have, if you can’t work, you might not get paid. If you’re sick, you’re not getting paid. So I’m glad that helped, they had that help for everyone, because I applied for it and it helped my family. It helped us get by. You know, we used it for things like groceries, or I had to repair my car so I could get to school, so stuff like that, it really helped.
DELLINGER: And what you’re talking about is the—that’s the money that the Nation got from the CARES Act?
HANDSEL: Yes.
38
DELLINGER: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was helpful.
HANDSEL: And then the vaccine incentive as well, I liked that. I was going to get mine anyway, but, you know, just offering that to people who might be on the fence about it, I think that really helped as well. Because I’m a big fan of incentivizing people sometimes for things. (laughs) [01:00:00]
DELLINGER: Right. Were you involved at all with the—I know they also provided food.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah.
DELLINGER: For citizens.
HANDSEL: I wasn’t, but my aunt, she would go and get, like, a little food box. And so we kind of shared it together. She’d get her little box and then we would, you know— she’s like, “Oh, do you need soup or anything?” So we would kind of split those. So that helped out a lot, too, because that kind of kept her from going to the grocery store. She could just drive up, they’d put the little box in her car, and she was good, so she wouldn’t have to go to Walmart and touch bread that other people had touched or be around people that were coughing. So I really think that helped, especially people that were vulnerable or didn’t want to get out.
39
DELLINGER: Yeah. Now, you touched on how our local and state and federal governments responded to COVID, and I was going to ask you this question [01:01:00] about, like, how did the Muscogee (Creek) Nation perform in comparison to these other governmental entities? Do you have anything else that you’d like to share about that?
HANDSEL: A couple things, I guess. You know, the thing—it’s a hard choice to make. Masking was my number one thing. They can’t force people to mask up but I wish more would have been done to encourage people to mask up. I know, like I said, again, with our government, I’m glad we have the government we have. I just wish they could have found a way to get people to mask up more or get vaccinated more. You know, to help those people that were kind of on the fence about it.
And then, as far as addressing some things after COVID, or even during the pandemic, because students went to school. They still had the option to go to school [01:02:00] on Zoom. Chromebooks were given to students who didn’t have them, internet was given
out to students who didn’t have it. But I don’t feel like enough was done to help those students who were learning from home. My son kind of lucked out, because I was a teacher, or I was becoming a teacher at the time. But there’s some students, their parents don’t have that background. I wish there’d been resources to help the parents teach their kids, or more ways to make sure the kids did their work. Because some kids didn’t log on that whole time during the pandemic. They come back to school and they can’t multiply, they can’t divide, and they’re sixth, seventh grade. Or they can’t read past a third-grade
40
level. So I wish more would have been done to monitor or regulate student learning during the pandemic, because I feel like we focused more on the virus and preventing it, but we should have focused more on how to deal with it and how to help students learn during that time.
DELLINGER: Yeah. [01:03:00] We’re in sync here, you just answered my next three questions. (laughter) But that’s okay, because, yeah, I was going to ask you the impact that COVID and the pandemic had on education, and you just talked about that. And the ability of teachers to teach and students to learn. It obviously was a big issue, not only here in Oklahoma, but across the country.
HANDSEL: Oh, yeah. And it’s not just what the students—you know, reading and math and all of that. It’s social, too. Students that were out for a year or a year and a half that were only at home, and they come back to a classroom full of thirty other students, they
don’t have the social skills for that anymore. They had to relearn classroom behavior, relearn how to resolve conflicts without hitting or screaming. And it was a process, and, you know, we’re [01:04:00] still working on it, and it’s not just Tulsa, it’s not just Oklahoma. It’s the entire country. There’s teachers in Pennsylvania and Florida and California dealing with the same behavioral issues right now, and it’s not the students’ fault, it’s just, they were isolated and they’ve got to learn how to act again and how to behave again in social situations. So it will be a process, and I think it might be something that might affect them their entire lives, just like the education they missed out on. It could affect their entire lives.
41
DELLINGER: Yeah. Did you feel like in the heat of the pandemic, were you getting support from Tulsa Public School System? Did you feel like the system itself was trying to support you more than at the state level?
HANDSEL: I do, because I feel like, TPS, they offered us a Chromebook. We didn’t need one, because we had the devices. They offered us internet, but we [01:05:00] didn’t need it, so we declined it. It was there for kids who needed it. I liked that. You could go to schools and pick up your kid’s workbook or pick up supplies. I mean, so many places were giving out supplies, still, so that was helpful. But, again, I feel like I had an advantage because I wasn’t working and I was at home with my kid, so I could go up there and pick up his stuff when it was time. But if I was a working parent, when would I get that stuff? It’s hard for people to take off to get those things. Maybe they can’t at all. I’m not sure how that worked in situations when a parent couldn’t pick up the material for their student. So I feel like they did help, but I think they didn’t look at all the angles. Angles we’re just now realizing. So everyone tried their best, I feel, but there was just so much going on. It was hard to address everything.
DELLINGER: Yes. Yes. Now, you’ve touched on the social and behavioral issues [01:06:00] that you feel like have been caused by COVID-19, the pandemic, the kids being isolated. Can you share any thoughts about how the pandemic has affected the mental health of our children here in the United States because of the pandemic?
42
HANDSEL: Yeah. You read in articles, people were getting depressed, people were turning to substances, and all kinds of negative effects on mental health. And I think for the students, too, I don’t want to name specifics, but I think, yeah. Kids were at home and they had to deal with a lot of stuff that they normally might have been protected from, had they been at school. Or they were left at home and maybe they got to thinking about things, and that could have led to other issues like anxiety or depression. Or coming back into a roomful of students could have [01:07:00] brought up feelings of anxiety that they might not have had. I know students still wear masks, even though we’re not required to, because they are so scared of getting sick. I have a student in tears because her mask came off, someone had pulled it off, and she thought she was going to get sick. And that was, you know, we were almost at panic attack level. So it has affected their mental health. And I just, yeah, I wish—I think we still need to address that, too. Yeah. Because it has—even though it’s not something you can see as much, it’s still there.
DELLINGER: Okay. Now, you mentioned that you have been vaccinated, and will you share why it was important for you to be vaccinated?
HANDSEL: My main thing was just protection. I wanted my family protected. I just—I saw getting this, back when [01:08:00] healthy people were dying overnight in their rooms, or people, their lungs were filling up and they were passing away, just, so quickly. I didn’t want that happening to my family, so I told my husband, “I think we’ve got to get it, as soon as it’s available, we’re going.” Even though I sometimes have this feeling that sometimes medications are pushed through too quickly. You might hear about a
43
medication that was recalled a couple years after it came out because it causes heart damage. Or it was having these unintended side effects. And I worried about that. I said, “They rushed this, in a way, so people could avoid getting sick, but what’s going to happen ten years from now? Or five years from now?” And I really had to consider that, but I felt avoiding the virus was more important overall. So, yeah, we did get vaccinated and we got our boosters.
DELLINGER: [01:09:00] And which of the vaccines and boosters have you had?
HANDSEL: My husband—we went to different locations, just based on our schedule. So him and his mom got the Pfizer vaccine, I think my son also got the Pfizer vaccine as well, when it was available to children. And then I think I was the only one in my family that got the Moderna, now that I think about it.
DELLINGER: Did you all have side effects?
HANDSEL: Yeah. It’s like the flu. That’s one of the things I do not like about being sick, is the achiness. I don’t mind the sleepiness, because I can just take a nap. But, yeah, just that achy flu feeling. Like, heavy limbs and everything, I don’t like that part. That just, that zap of energy. But next day, you’re better, and then you don’t have to worry about contracting the virus as much. You know, there’s still a chance, but you feel more protected.
44
DELLINGER: Right. How did Noah do with the vaccine? [01:10:00]
HANDSEL: Better than me, I think. The side effects didn’t hit him as hard. He was awesome at getting the shot. We didn’t have to hold him down like a toddler. He wanted to get it because he was realizing how important this was, and how that virus has changed his whole life. So he wanted to get it. So, not too much of an argument there.
DELLINGER: Was that, for you and Chris, was that a difficult decision, as parents, for you to make? To have your child—because I know that was a big, it probably continues to be a debate in this country, as to whether to give this vaccine to certain-aged children. Was that a difficult decision for you?
HANDSEL: It was, because you worry about the side effects, but—and this is kind of silly, I always reference this, kind of as part of my argument. I was watching a show one time and they had vaccinations as the [01:11:00] topic, and they said, Shots hurt, but not as much as getting whatever sickness it is. And so, yeah, I’d rather him get the shot than get sick. So that was what weighed out. I just couldn’t imagine him getting the virus. And I gave him the option to, I said, “If you just don’t want this, that’s fine. I don’t want to push it on you. I got it, but it’s up to you.” And he wanted it. For the same reasons, to kind of feel a little bit more protected.
DELLINGER: Yes. Very good. Going back to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation, I asked you about leadership, but what are your thoughts about how the Muscogee (Creek) Nation
45
health department performed? And they continue to, but what are your thoughts about how they performed in the early days of the pandemic?
HANDSEL: I think I really like the protocol, because it feels like, if there’s [01:12:00] a possibility that you are infected with the virus, it was kind of like, you know, you were here away from people who were just coming in to get their medication refilled or to check about some other issue that was affecting their health. Everyone had to wear a mask, it wasn’t an option, which, I really like that. You want to go in, you’ve got to get your temperature checked and wear your mask. That keeps everyone safe, right there. And then having people come out to do the test. Again, you’re avoiding getting sick by keeping that one person kind of isolated from everyone else. And then even bringing out medications, out to the car if they needed to. So they—I feel like I really liked their protocols, and they’re still keeping it like that. You don’t have to get your temperature checked at the clinic we go to, but you still have to wear your mask. And I think they still have the little parking spots to get tested for COVID, too.
DELLINGER: Which clinic do you use?
HANDSEL: Fifth and Peoria. [01:13:00]
DELLINGER: Oh, okay.
HANDSEL: Yeah. Indian Healthcare Resource Center.
46
DELLINGER: Yes. How did COVID-19 and the pandemic affect Tulsa Creek Indian Community?
HANDSEL: Well, I feel like I just took all my volunteer stuff and put it on pause. Because people couldn’t meet. They cancelled the festival in the summer, so I couldn’t— it was Noah’s year to—he was old enough to do the junior Olympics, and I was excited about volunteering. And they cancelled it, just because of everything. And then I think it was put on hold and cancelled the year after that. And so it was almost like it was just kind of gone for a while, the Adult Community Center, because there’s not much that could be done. And they tried, we had the little drive-through things where they did, like, the groceries and stuff like that. But it’s just, people weren’t coming together as much, or at all.
DELLINGER: At that community center, was there any [01:14:00] loss of life because of COVID?
HANDSEL: I can’t remember. I don’t remember anyone that I knew personally. I think there were some members, they got it and—I just don’t remember hearing about anyone that passed away. I know there might have been a couple, but not off the top of my head.
DELLINGER: Okay. So, after three years of having COVID-19 in existence here in the United States, what are your thoughts about COVID-19 ever going away?
47
HANDSEL: I don’t think it ever will. I mean, it’s like the flu. I mean, HIV came out in the ’80s and we’re still working on stopping that. I don’t think it’ll ever go away. Once something’s here, if it’s established, I don’t think it’ll go away. We thought we beat, I think it was smallpox or something else, too. Maybe polio, it was polio. We thought we beat polio, and it’s coming back, it’s in the wastewater in New York. So [01:15:00] there are people that are carrying it right now. I just think we have to learn to live with it and do what we can to kind of keep it at bay. Establishing certain protocols. Just handwashing can mean so much. So stuff like that, as more of a preventative, helps.
DELLINGER: At this time, are you engaging in a life that is similar to what your life was like prior to the pandemic?
HANDSEL: I think so. I feel like we are finally getting back to normal. Like, we started going back to the community center, volunteering with things again, and we’ve been traveling. My son, for two years, he didn’t have a birthday party, and we’re considering one this year. So, you know, that’s nice. (laughs) And traveling, we started traveling again. Still with the masks and hand sanitizer, but, [01:16:00] yeah, we’re still traveling. So that’s good. I feel like we are returning to life. But then you might be at the gas station or at Walgreens and you hear someone cough and you kind of jump. So it’s still there, kind of in the back of your mind.
48
DELLINGER: Yeah. All right, Mrs. Handsel, we’re down to our last two questions. For future generations of Muscogee who may find themselves faced with a global health and economic event such as the COVID-19 pandemic, what words of advice do you have for them about surviving and finding life again after such a catastrophic event?
HANDSEL: The number one thing I would advise, try to see things from every angle, even if it’s not an angle you agree with. You know, what could happen to this? What could happen to this? You know, am I still going to be able to do that? And this sounds a little silly, but I would recommend a book, World War Z by [01:17:00] Max Brooks. And it’s about zombies, but if you take out that word “zombie” and replace it with “virus” or “pandemic,” it makes a lot of sense, because he’s one of those writers that will see things from different angles. And it will help you prepare for things. The CDC has used his work before. So I really like how he sees a pandemic and how the world would react to it. So that would be my advice, look into Max Brooks’ writing. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay, that’s really interesting. So I will definitely be checking that out. Now, they made that book into a movie.
HANDSEL: It’s not like the book. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Well, yeah, the books are always better. But am I thinking of the right movie, though, with Brad Pitt?
49
HANDSEL: Yeah, but, yeah, apples and oranges. (laughs)
DELLINGER: Okay, all right. I’ll be checking out the book, then.
HANDSEL: Yeah.
DELLINGER: Okay, great. So, in closing, is there anything else that you want to say about your experiences with the COVID-19 pandemic?
HANDSEL: [01:18:00] I think it’s still something that we’re going to have some aftereffects with, even decades down the line. Especially as far as education. Some students missed out on some milestones during that time. That milestone where they had the chance to be a good reader, that milestone where they learn social interactions with their peers. And I hope that we can catch those and kind of fix what they missed out on. But, yeah, I feel like it’ll probably affect us for a really long time.
DELLINGER: Okay. All right, well, this has been fantastic. Mvto again, for your time here this morning, and sharing your experiences and thoughts about COVID-19 and the pandemic, and you continue to stay well.
HANDSEL: Oh, thank you. You, too.
END OF INTERVIEW
50
Community:
Category:
Collections:
Original Date Description:
January 7, 2023Original Date:
2023 January 7thContributor:
Language:
EnglishRights:
All rights retained by the Muscogee (Creek) NationLicensing Options:
![Creative Commons License](http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-nc-nd/4.0/88x31.png)
Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International (CC BY-NC-ND 4.0)
Source:
Muscogee (Creek) Nation Library and ArchivesExternal Links:
Identifier:
2022MCN.18.001Type:
Format: