Tyler Stone, Interview

The Muscogee (Creek) Nation
Historic and Cultural Preservation Department
Oral History Program



“A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country:
The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against Covid-19”

As Remembered by: Mr. Tyler Stone
Interview by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
Date: November 4, 2022


Transcription: The Audio Transcription Company
Edited by: Ms. Midge Dellinger
MIDGE DELLINGER: This is Midge Dellinger, oral historian for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation. Today is November 4, 2022. And I’m at my home in Tulsa, Oklahoma interviewing Cherokee citizen Mr. Tyler Stone who works for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Behavioral Health Department and who is at his home in Okmulgee, Oklahoma. I’m performing this interview on behalf of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Historic and Cultural Preservation Department for the oral history project titled “A Twenty-First Century Pandemic in Indian Country: The Resilience of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Against COVID-19”. Mr. Stone, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to do this interview with me.

TYLER STONE: Of course, it’s my honor. I appreciate you inviting me.

DELLINGER: Yes. We’re going to start this interview with some questions about your life and your background. And so let’s begin with [00:01:00] where were you born?

STONE: I was born in Tahlequah, Oklahoma.

DELLINGER: And do you know the hospital there that you were born in?

STONE: Yes. I was born at the Hastings Hospital there.

DELLINGER: Okay, and what year was that?

STONE: That was 1990 was when I was born.

DELLINGER: All right. Now, where did you grow up?

STONE: Kind of the beginning of my life I grew up in Wainwright, Oklahoma; Wainwright, Council Hill area. And I spent a short time in Louisiana, about a year and a half or so. My brother was born there, and then we moved back. So, I spent the majority of my life growing up in Council Hill, Oklahoma.

DELLINGER: And what was life like growing up in Council Hill? Will you talk just a little bit about your childhood?

STONE: Sure. So, we lived out in the country so we spent a lot of our time going [00:02:00] outside, playing in the—we lived on our grandfather’s land and he had about two hundred acres, and it was fields. It was pastures for his cattle. There were ponds everywhere so we could go take our fishing poles out and go fishing. We just did a lot of exploring. We were really into just seeing all the trees in the forest and kind of going out there and just discovering what we could, and it was really fun.
I grew up with two younger siblings. I have a younger brother and a younger sister. And we would just spend a lot of time throwing footballs to each other, baseball. We’d ride our bikes everywhere. We would hang out with our cousins who lived next door. So I would say the majority of our time we would spend outside. And then during the nighttime or some of those more cold winter months we would spend indoors watching movies, TV shows, or [00:03:00] playing video games too. So, yeah, that’s kind of a lot of the things that we did for sure. Sports and being active was kind of big for us growing up.

DELLINGER: All right, great. That sounds like a pretty fantastic childhood actually. Now, who are your parents? Please tell me about each one of them.

STONE: Sure. My mother is Laura is her name, Laura Simmons. And my father is Raymond Stone.

DELLINGER: We can start with your dad if you’d like. Will you talk a little bit about your father?

STONE: Sure. So, my father was always working in something to do with aviation. When I was a kid he worked for an airport and he did some mechanic work for them and flew some more of the farm planes. [00:04:00] And then after that he ended up getting a job for American Airlines working for that airline, which he still does today and he’s been with the airlines for twenty plus years. He currently lives in Florida with his new wife. So, yeah, I don’t get to see him that often since he’s in a completely different state kind of far away. But we still stay in touch via phone and whatnot.

DELLINGER: And what about your mother? Tell me a little bit about her.

STONE: So, my mother works for the tribe and she has for—gosh, since I was in high school, middle school. She’s been with the tribe for a while and works over at Fleet. So if anyone’s ever needed to borrow a car from Fleet for work purposes, you probably ran into my mom. Or if you worked the festival, you’ve probably seen her working backstage. [00:05:00] Yeah, my mom, sweetest lady you’ll ever meet. She always has a smile on her face. She is always willing to help people. She was probably our biggest cheerleader growing up, I would say. My parents split when I was about seven years old. We stayed with our mom. And I would say she was probably our biggest cheerleader, making sure that we stayed out of as much trouble as we could. She was always kind of watching over us.
My mom was one of those parents—this was such a nineties, 2000s thing where she would always want to—if we were hanging out with friends she would want to know who their parents were. So before we’d go hang out or spend the night at a friend’s house, she’d have to do kind of like a phone interview with the parents to get a vibe, you know. And she always did this thing where she would make friends with other parents, so she kind of had co-parents all around us to make sure—you know, because it kind of takes a village. And [00:06:00] she would always be really close with our friends’ parents to make sure they could kind of watch over us and make sure we weren’t doing too many things we shouldn’t be doing.

DELLINGER: And then from our previous conversation, your mother is remarried as well.

STONE: Yes. My mother’s remarried. She remarried back in I want to say ’98, ’99 to David. So my mom’s last name is Simmons. So, they’ve been married for quite a while now, still see them pretty frequent. They live out in Henryetta area, so not too far away from where I’m currently at. I probably see my mom at least once a week.

DELLINGER: Okay, great. Now, who are your grandparents, if you would share a little bit about your grandparents both on your father’s side and your mother’s side?

STONE: [00:07:00] My grandparents on my mother’s side are Joanne and Ron Zeigler. I spent the most time with them. I can recall as a young kid spending a lot of time with them. For a short period we actually lived with them when we were kind of coming back from Louisiana in the early nineties. I remember spending a lot of time with them. A lot of my earliest memories are spending a lot of time at their house. I learned how to swim in their pool. I remember waking up in the morning and helping my grandfather feed the chickens, feeding the dogs, going hunting with him and my uncles and cousins. And I remember listening to a lot of music with my grandma or watching a lot of movies with her. She got me into a lot of the classic movies that we’d watch on VHS tapes. So, yeah, I remember spending a lot of time with [00:08:00] them, and I still see them pretty often as well, especially around major holidays. We still get everyone together at their house and break bread together and play cards. We play nine hand pitch is kind of the family game that we play. So, we’re just constantly training the younger generation how to play that game so we can keep it going.
As far as my grandparents on my father’s side, I have my grandma. I call her Nan. And my grandfather, so my dad’s father, I don’t have a lot of memories of him growing up. My father’s parents split, I think, either before or after I was born, somewhere in there. [00:09:00] I don’t really have any memories of my dad’s father. I know that I met him because there are pictures to prove it. But my dad’s side of the family resides more in Louisiana area. And we only lived there for a short period of time, so I don’t really remember him too much. His name was also Raymond. But I do remember spending a lot of time with my dad’s mother, my Nan, growing up. As a kid, she lived in Muscogee for a short period of time and then Vian actually for a little while.

DELLINGER: And now your Grandpa Zeigler, is he originally from the Council Hill area?

STONE: So, they actually resided in California back in the day. They moved down to [00:10:00] Oklahoma in search for jobs like a lot of people did. They heard about jobs that were opening up in Tulsa so they decided to move down there. So, yeah, he was actually residing in California originally.

DELLINGER: And what was his occupation?

STONE: His current occupation and what he’s been doing for a while is construction. Back then, I want to say—and I apologize if I’m wrong, but I want to say that he moved down to Tulsa to work in some sort of metal factory maybe or some kind of assembly. He was doing some kind of assembly work I think. But currently and from as long as I can remember he was always doing some kind of construction work. He would actually contract through the tribe and he would work with a lot of Native homes in [00:11:00] kind of remodeling some of them or making them more handicap accessible for some people who needed ramps or different showers put in. So, he did a lot of that kind of work and still does to this day actually. He’s eighty years old and he’s still getting out there and working on houses.

DELLINGER: That’s great. Now, your Grandma Zeigler, did she work outside of the home then too?

STONE: My grandma didn’t really work too much. I remember for a short period of time I think she had a job where she was helping in a kitchen somewhere, maybe a childcare center. But she didn’t really work. She just kind of handled running the errands throughout the day, prepared all the meals, handled all the finances, cleaned up around the house, some of the yardwork. That was kind of her thing, watching grandkids. She always had a grandkid over. If somebody had to go to work, the grandkids would go over there. So she stayed busy. She just wasn’t getting paid for it [00:12:00] financially with money. (laughter)

DELLINGER: Well, I think a lot of grandmas and mothers can say that.

STONE: Yeah, for sure.

DELLINGER: So, what about your other grandparents? I know you just mentioned that you didn’t really know a whole lot about your dad’s dad, but do you know what type of occupations they might’ve had?

STONE: Yeah. They actually ran and operated an oil company in Baton Rouge. It was called Stone Oil Company. So they were in the oil game back then. My grandmother, who just recently in the past few years retired from the VA in Muskogee. So she worked there for a long time. And I can’t remember exactly what she did at the VA, but she did a lot of work there for many, many years.

DELLINGER: Okay, great. Being out there and growing up at Council Hill, what school district did you attend throughout your school years?

STONE: [00:13:00] Half of my school year I attended Midway School District, which at the time the elementary was in Hitchita so wasn’t too far of a drive for us to attend there. But from sixth to twelfth grade I actually attended Morris School District.

DELLINGER: Oh, okay. And so that’s where you graduated from high school then?

STONE: Yes, yeah. It kind of made sense because my mom worked in Okmulgee so Morris was on the way, so she could just drop us off there at school and then pick us up afterwards.

DELLINGER: Right. So, were you involved in any school activities while you were in junior high and high school?

STONE: Yeah. So, in junior high I was in band and football, basketball, baseball. And then about tenth grade I really just focused primarily on band. That was my big thing. Music was always really important to me, so that was kind of where my focus went [00:14:00] was just band. Band, hanging out with friends, watching movies, just being a nerd. That was kind of my thing. That was my thing. If it was nerdy, I was into it.

DELLINGER: What instrument did you play?

STONE: I played the baritone primarily. That was kind of my bread and butter was the baritone. I started off playing trumpet actually. But at the time, I had braces and it was kind of hard because when you’re playing—that mouthpiece is pretty small and you have to really purse your lips. So having braces, you were pressing on it a lot so it was kind of hard to get my embouchure down to play that. So I wanted something with a bigger mouthpiece so they introduced me to the baritone, which was kind of the perfect medium because tuba’s way too big, takes too much air. But that baritone was just right in my sweet spot. I played the [00:15:00] baritone, gosh, probably from eighth to twelfth grade. And I was pretty good at it, I would say. I really enjoyed it. It just kind of came natural to me I guess.

DELLINGER: Do you still have your instrument? Do you ever still pick it up and play it?

STONE: I don’t. I never owned the instrument. Those instruments are really expensive, and I don’t come from a family of a ton of wealth. We couldn’t afford one, so luckily the school just supplied us with the instruments. So, I would just play at school. I’d learn my parts really fast and play them and knock it out, and I’d leave my band instrument at home. It’s kind of tough to bring a horn back to your house and play outside because you will get in trouble for scaring the deer away because we lived in the middle of the woods. So you kind of learn just to get good in that [00:16:00] one hour you have a day of playing your instrument. And then you don’t practice outside of it, which is fine. It was cool. I wish I still had it. That would be kind of cool. But I still play guitar. That’s my instrument.

DELLINGER: When did you start playing guitar?

STONE: I think I started playing when I was about maybe eleven or twelve years old. My grandfather asked me if I’d be interested in playing it because he plays guitar, and I said yeah. So, the first song I learned how to play was “Sunday Morning Coming Down”, the Johnny Cash version. My grandfather’s a huge Johnny Cash fan and so him and I really bonded over Johnny Cash and playing guitar. My grandfather taught me the simple chords. And from there we would look up the chords for all these Johnny Cash songs. [00:17:00] We had a Johnny Cash chord book and we would just learn those songs and play together, and that’s pretty much where I learned how to play. It was great. I owe a lot to my grandfather, obviously, for getting me into guitar and turning me on to Johnny Cash because I love him so much, and got a poster of him up on my wall right now next to my first guitar I ever owned. Yeah, Johnny Cash was a pretty big inspiration for me I would say.

Interruption in internet connection [17:32-18:18]

STONE: I think it froze Midge. Uh-oh. [00:18:00]

DELLINGER: So, which grandfather is this who got you into the guitar and Johnny Cash?

STONE: That’s my mother’s father.

DELLINGER: Now, what year did you graduate from high school?

STONE: I graduated in 2009.

DELLINGER: And then where did life take you immediately after high school?

STONE: After I graduated high school I stayed with my parents for about a year, actually about six months or so. I started working in Okmulgee, just working at a fast-food restaurant. And at the [00:19:00] time, I was dating who is now my wife. Her name’s Amy. And we decided to get a rent house, so we got one right there in town. And I attended OSUIT here in Okmulgee during the time that I was working. After graduating from OSUIT, moved to the house where I’m currently at now. And at the time we were just renting it.
And from there, after I graduated OSUIT I went to NSU in Broken Arrow to get my bachelor’s degree in psychology. I changed jobs here and there. I worked a little bit in the mental health field and then quit that and then worked in retail for a little bit. I had a daughter around that time. She was born in 2012 while I was wrapping up my bachelor’s degree. And then I started working for the tribe in 2014, [00:20:00] at the very end of 2014. And then about a couple years later I was encouraged by my supervisor, Thomasine, to pursue my master’s degree. So I went and did that in 2016, did the three year program so I graduated in 2019. And I’ve just kept working in the mental health field ever since.

DELLINGER: Okay. So, I’m going to go back here a little bit. What year did you finish up at OSUIT?

STONE: I finished there—I want to say 2011 seems right, 2012. Yeah, I’d have to look back at my diploma and see but I want to say 2011 sounds fair.

DELLINGER: And then what about when you finished your bachelor’s at NSU. What year would that have been?

STONE: That was 2014 is when I finished that, toward the middle of [00:21:00] 2014.

DELLINGER: And then say again what year you started working for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation.

STONE: 2014.

DELLINGER: That was 2014, okay.

STONE: Yeah, towards the end of it.

DELLINGER: Right. And so let’s go back to 2014 when you started working for the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Behavioral Health Department. What was your position then and your responsibilities at that time?

STONE: So, I was a—the title was called prevention counselor, which basically what I did was we had MOAs with schools. I did an afterschool program with our Native youth who were in fifth grade. Each week I’d go to a different school and I’d go to that same school every single week so you start to build rapport with these students. And we’d start off with some healthy snacks and then we would transition it to a lesson plan. So we’d do different life skills plans [00:22:00] about protective factors; coping skills; how to manage anger; how to manage stress, anxiety, all these different things. So we’d spend about the first hour doing that.
And then that next hour we would do physical activities, so different kinds of games. And I wanted to make sure that all these games that we played—and it was very important for us to do this was that all the games that we played were inclusive. So, it wasn’t like old school dodgeball where if you got hit you were out. We wanted to make it where if you got hit by a dodgeball you’d have to go off to the side and do ten jumping jacks to come back in. That way you don’t get hit and you go, “Well, I’m out,” and you spend the rest of the time just kind of sitting on the sidelines. So, we wanted to make sure that every game that we played had some kind of component where everyone was involved. Yeah, so we’d play games like that. When we did [00:23:00] summer camps we’d do stickball or Indian football or Shinny, games like that. It was a good time.

DELLINGER: So, I know your position now or your title now is different. Is that right?

STONE: Yes, that’s correct.

DELLINGER: So what is that? And then again talk a little bit about your current responsibilities with the department.

STONE: My position is called project director, so I’m the director over the Native Connections suicide and substance abuse prevention grant. So, some of the things that I do is work with schools and the community on trainings, like suicide prevention trainings or substance abuse prevention trainings. I go into the schools and talk to students about substance use, what the substances are, how to avoid them, why people use in the first place.
I do a lot of trainings [00:24:00] for school teachers, specifically suicide prevention training. So I’m teaching them how to recognize warning signs of suicide in their students and how to have that conversation. Because we know that with suicide and mental health in general, it’s very stigmatized and people don’t really feel comfortable talking about it. So, what I aim to do in those trainings is to instill a sense of confidence in people to feel okay having those conversations and bringing it up to people who they suspect might be struggling. And then how to connect that person to get the appropriate help that they need. So, I do a lot of those trainings for—I’ll do virtual trainings for the community. I’ll go to different facilities and do trainings within the reservation, different departments within the reservation. I work with schools on passing or adopting suicide policies and procedures to better equip the school on how to handle crisis situations.
[00:25:00] I do a lot of different outreach activities. Or I’ll set up a resource booth if I’m invited to come out and just pass out resources and just get the word out there about our services that we provide and how you can access those. So, yeah, in an overall nutshell that’s kind of my day-to-day. But it changes every day. It just kind of depends on what’s going on in the world. I just wrapped up—last week was Red Ribbon Week, which is a big national week of recognizing—it’s anti-drugs and bullying. So, I spent a lot of time at schools last week doing a lot of substance abuse trainings. So, it was a good time.

DELLINGER: Well listen, that is—you know, your work is very critical and you’ve got a lot on your plate so I just want to say mvto for the work that you do. When in [00:26:00] your life did you know that you wanted to pursue the study and field of behavioral health?

STONE: It was actually during my time at OSUIT. Whenever you’re getting your basics done you’re kind of doing a little bit of everything, so I was taking some psychology classes. And I was in this particular psychology class that I had to take. It was just a requirement. And I really connected with the instructor. It was one of those weird things where I just kind of felt this shift and wanting to do this kind of work. Because originally when I went to OSU I knew I was going to be a dietitian or a nutritionist. That’s what I wanted to do, and I knew that, until I had this class. And then that just completely shifted for me. And from there, that’s all I wanted to do. I [00:27:00] wanted to be in a position to help people, whether it was through being a counselor or something. I didn’t really know at the time, but my heart was leaning towards being a counselor.
So, I did some research and found out that NSU was a route to take. My wife, who is a year—she’s six months older than me but she was a year ahead of me in terms of grade. She was going down a similar path, so I kind of just followed in her footsteps. She went the psychology route as well. So, that’s the career path that I took. I worked in an inpatient facility for about a year and a half, didn’t have a great experience. And I thought after that experience that mental health was going to be something I never touched again, so that’s why I went and worked retail. And worked retail, [00:28:00] was very miserable. Not just because of the work that I was doing, just the whole environment was not really good for me.
And I saw my mom who, like I said, worked at the tribe and still does, said, “Hey, I heard that Behavioral Health is hiring this position.” And I said, “I don’t really want to touch behavioral health anymore. It’s not for me.” And she said, “Well, you should give it a shot because I think it’s more kind of like physical activities. It sounds pretty cool.” I said, “Sure, why not.” It was closer to home. Because at the time I was driving to Broken Arrow every day, so I was spending a lot of time and money on gas and I wasn’t getting paid that great.
So, I gave it a shot and I interviewed for it and I ended up getting the job. And it really changed my life honestly because I never had any desires working in behavioral health. And during that time before my interview, I was [00:29:00] twenty-three and didn’t really know what I was going to do with my life in general, kind of had some dark moments there for a while to be completely transparent. So getting this job really kind of rejuvenated hope for me and a purpose, I would say, in a career path. I definitely wouldn’t be working in behavioral health had it not been for landing that job, and I’m forever grateful. And I’m going on almost eight years next month, so I’m really fortunate of where I’m at today.

DELLINGER: Yeah, that’s a great story. Thanks for sharing that.

STONE: Yeah, of course.

DELLINGER: You know, sometimes the universe knows better than we do.

STONE: Mm-hmm, it’s true.

DELLINGER: Now [00:30:00] Mr. Stone, how many years have you lived in Okmulgee?

STONE: I’ve lived in Okmulgee since 2010, so twelve years.

DELLINGER: Tell me about your family and life there in Okmulgee. You’ve already mentioned your wife a couple times, but will you share a little bit more about her and your daughter too?

STONE: My wife and I got married in 2011, so we were just babies. We couldn’t even drink at our own wedding. We had to have sparkling grape juice because we weren’t even twenty-one yet. So we’ve been married ever since. We had our daughter the following year, so in 2012. We just celebrated my daughter’s tenth birthday, which is wild to think. We were already in this house, so my daughter grew up in this house. We live kind of outside of Okmulgee, which is nice. [00:31:00] It’s a little—we’ve got some trees and it’s kind of quiet for the most part. We do get some pretty heavy traffic down the street every now and then. So we’re not too far from town but just far enough where it can be kind of quiet and peaceful at night, which is great.
For us, we love to go to Disney World every year if the funds are there. We’re kind of homebodies though for the most part. I wouldn’t really categorize us as an adventurous family. We’re pretty cool with just hanging out, chilling, watching some TV, playing some board games, building some Lego, those kind of things. It’s really chill. My daughter is super, super smart and caring and empathetic even for a young age. I’m just so [00:32:00] blown away by how smart and caring that she is. We’re very proud of her for that. And my wife, very smart and caring as well, so I guess it kind of makes sense that our daughter is too. But, yeah, we’re pretty chill honestly. I would say that’s the best way to describe us. We’re just a pretty chill family for the most part.

DELLINGER: All right. Now, will you please share the names of your wife and your daughter?

STONE: My wife’s name is Amy, and my daughter’s name is Natalie.

DELLINGER: And what does Amy—from our previous conversation, you mentioned Amy works for the Muscogee Nation too. Can you talk a little bit about her work?

STONE: She works for Tribal TANF. So she does a lot of life skills groups and soft skills groups [00:33:00] for some of the participants there in that program. Gosh, she’s probably been there for going on ten years now, I would say. I think she started back in 2012, 2013. So she’s about at that ten year mark. She really enjoys it. It’s been great.

DELLINGER: All right. You have shared some things here that you enjoy doing with your family during your time away from work. Do you have, though, any special interests or hobbies that you do just for yourself?

STONE: Yeah. I’m really big into fitness. That’s a really big thing. But sometimes I work out with my friends too, which I actually enjoy. It’s for myself but it’s not by myself, if that makes sense, all the time. But I enjoy it that way. [00:34:00] So I’d say fitness is really big for me. I’m a big gamer. I love playing video games. I do 3D printing too, so I like to print things off and build objects. I’m currently working on a Captain America shield for a friend. So, that’s really fun. I like playing D&D, Dungeons & Dragons. I like doing that. I like watching shows. I like anime and watching documentaries. And every now and then if I get the inspiration to do so, I’ll do a little house project maybe. I haven’t had that bug in a while, which is probably for the best. But I like doing those kinds of things. Yeah, I would say those are sort of my things I like to do. And then playing music too is up there for me.

DELLINGER: Okay, very good. Is there anything else [00:35:00] that you want to share about your life? I want to make sure we’ve kind of hit the highlights of your life here today.

STONE: Yeah, I feel like we’ve covered it for the most part. I’ve got a lot of hobbies and interests in life. I’m one of those people that can get really hyper-fixated on one thing for a short period of time and then transition over here. Yeah, I’m kind of all over the place. But yeah, it’s pretty simple and chill over here. Especially the older I get, the more I really just appreciate coming home on a Friday night and just hanging out, occasionally going and seeing a movie if there’s something I want to see in theaters. But yeah, I’m a pretty chill guy for the most part.

DELLINGER: All right. Well, I’ll tell you what I think we’re going to do now is we’re going to transition the interview here, and I’m going to [00:36:00] ask you some questions about your experiences with COVID-19 and the pandemic. Here in the United States we’re almost at the end of the third year of having COVID-19 in existence. But when in 2020 do you remember first hearing about the COVID-19 virus and how did you first hear about it?

STONE: I remember hearing about it probably around February of 2020. I think I heard—I was getting a tattoo, oddly enough. We were taking a break from the session and I remember hearing a report that somebody in Seattle had a confirmed case. And then we started hearing more and more about it making its way. I remember hearing about the first person in [00:37:00] Oklahoma to have a confirmed case of COVID. And I remember things started shutting down. I remember the OKC Thunder game shut down a minute into the game. I remember the March Madness tournament being cancelled.
This was in early March or mid-March. And at the time I thought that it was—maybe like a lot of people, I thought it was kind of—what’s the term I’m looking for? Like it was too much panic. I was like, It’s not a big deal. I was in a lot of denial that this virus was as deadly or as transmissible as it really was. So, we had actually had a conference that we were planning and I remember us thinking about, Okay, well, we were going to do it at River Spirit. Maybe we could just go to a smaller venue and maybe that’ll be cool. [00:38:00] And then as time got closer and closer we were like, No, we can’t do this.
And then I remember before we knew it, people around the office started getting COVID or were exposed to people with COVID. We started doing the grocery pickup at Walmart. We weren’t leaving our house. We were masking up. We were doing all the things. We pretty much just followed CDC guidelines at the time. So if it was six feet, it was six feet. If it was three feet, it was three. You know, we really tried to just stay in line with that. Yeah, so that’s when I first heard about it was probably about February. And like most people, was just kind of like, What does this mean? What are the long-term effects of this going to be?

DELLINGER: In February when you first started hearing [00:39:00] about the virus and as you mentioned, you spent a period of time in denial of it. In February, were you concerned or not about it making its way into Oklahoma and the Muscogee (Creek) Nation?

STONE: I didn’t think it was going to. I figured they would, at the time—and I don’t have a lot of knowledge in viral diseases. That’s definitely not my forte. So, little old me thought, Well, they’ll just quarantine that person. They’ll nip it in the butt. It’ll be fine. That was my initial thought was, It’ll be fine. So I didn’t have any concerns. It was just another day I thought because I didn’t really hear a lot about what the symptoms really were at that time. I just knew coronavirus. And I remember seeing clips back in 2019 about [00:40:00] people passing out in the streets or falling down in the streets of China, and then I remember hearing that that was kind of debunked and that wasn’t really COVID. So I was like, I don’t really know what this coronavirus thing is. Again, this is before it really hit here. So at that time, I had a lot of denial that it was going to make its way here. And if it did make its way here we would be able to take care of it quickly. Maybe that was just false hope, I guess, or overcompensating or just being overly optimistic that it wouldn’t become a big deal. And here we are.

DELLINGER: Yeah. So during the first couple months that the virus was starting to really encroach [00:41:00] and take off here in the United States, what were some of the initial conversations that you had with your family and friends and even coworkers about the virus?

STONE: Starting with the family there was a lot of fear but we wanted to make sure—at least for me and my wife, we wanted to make sure that we didn’t come at this conversation from a fear-based perspective with our daughter. We wanted to be transparent with her because she’s smart and she deserves to know what’s going on. But we just told her like, “Look, things are going to be—we don’t know all the facts yet. This is so new. We’re literally living during a science experiment right now.” Where some days CDC would say it’s this, some days they would say it’s that. And we just rolled with it because we know that as we’re getting new data coming in, things are going to change.
[00:42:00] So, we told her that, “This is what it is. You’re young. You’re still healthy, so you don’t have anything to be worried about. Obviously, we want to take precautions and be safe.” But we wanted to reassure her that if she were to get it, that most likely she would be fine if she got it because our daughter is a very anxious person. She gets that from me apparently. So, really making sure that I have those conversations with her; and constantly checking in with her and talking to her about it and kind of exploring some of those fears and normalizing those fears. It’s completely normal to be worried about this virus because I’m worried about it because I don’t really know all of it.
But for me, I really had to make sure to keep my composure because if I start panicking, then that’s only going to make everything ten times worse for my daughter. But, yeah, [00:43:00] we let her know that we probably weren’t going to be seeing her great-grandparents, my grandparents in person for a little bit. And we didn’t get to. We’d go out to their house and stay pretty far back, mask up. But that whole year we didn’t have holiday dinners or gatherings at all for their safety.

DELLINGER: What about conversations with coworkers at the beginning of the pandemic? Do you remember any of those?

STONE: Yeah. I think at the beginning—again, this is really before we started seeing a lot of increased rates—there was some denial. We thought it wasn’t going to be a big deal. And once it started becoming a great deal we definitely had conversations about, Okay, how do we minimize our risk while we’re here. So, [00:44:00] made sure that we were masking up. We had a rotation shift where we would spend—you know, we had shifts where one shift would be working from home; the other shift would be working in person. So, anything we could really do to sort of minimize our exposure we did.
We had a cleaning checklist. We were cleaning off doors and we were sanitizing handles and door handles, printer, anything that was touched on a regular basis by staff, we made sure that we took turns disinfecting those as much as possible. We did temp checks every morning when we came in; like I said, wore masks; all those different things. We had a symptoms checklist that we’d fill out. Which for me as somebody that had chronic sinus infections and allergies, I’d read those symptoms and I’d be like, Well, do I have [00:45:00] COVID today? Is today the day? I don’t have a fever, but I don’t know. I just drank my coffee and I have my beanie on and my temp’s a little high. Does that mean I ha—so you start getting really psychosomatic about it. So that was pretty worrisome.
I became very close with the employee health nurse over the years because I made frequent phone calls to staff my symptoms with her about if I have COVID or not. So I’m pretty sure they had me—I had them on speed dial and they pretty much recognized my number every time I called. I was probably just stuck in my head and over worrying about having COVID because I never wanted to have it and then spread it to somebody and then they have a hard time with it. That was always my biggest fear I think. I knew if I had it I would be fine. But my biggest fear was giving it to someone else and them not being very fine and feeling guilty for that. That was probably the most anxious moment that I had [00:46:00] during that time.

DELLINGER: Again sticking with the early stages of the pandemic, what made you consider or realize the severity of the virus?

STONE: I just started seeing it hit close to home. I started hearing reports of cases going up in Okmulgee County where I live. And once that happened, it was time to get really serious about it. And I started hearing about the complications that people were having with COVID. People were being hospitalized for it, being put on ventilators. It just became tough. Hospital workers were working double time, triple time, just exhausted. [00:47:00] People were having to say goodbye to their loved ones over the phone. I mean, it became real. And I didn’t want to be part of the problem. I didn’t want to be irresponsible and having COVID and spreading it without knowing it. So at that moment, I really became cautious of it and I made sure I was smart about it. Yeah, so, masked up and all those things.
But our work actually on the behavioral health side picked up too, so you had to find a way to be safe and then also kind of meet the community where they were at. Because we knew—and we started planning this early on, we knew that a lot of people were going to be isolated from people. And we knew that anxiety was probably going to go up exponentially, [00:48:00] depression, maybe thoughts of suicide, all these different things. Drug and alcohol use or relapse was going to happen.
So, we really went into action and started really thinking about what are some ways that we can help people out. So we started setting up call lines for people. We started doing remote trainings. We started doing remote—we called them coffee breaks. We did it once a week for Creek Nation employees to hop on virtually and talk to other people, other adults. Because a lot of people who were working from home, they weren’t really talking to—they were talking to their kids throughout the day because everyone was at home with their kids. So, it was a time for us to kind of get together. And it was kind of a training, kind of just a hangout. You know, there was always kind of a lesson plan involved. So, we did that.
We [00:49:00] put some COVID bags together. They were care packages where they were family oriented so we would have different games that involved the family getting together. We had resources, coloring books for kids, pretty much everything that we just kind of had around the office. We couldn’t really order a lot of stuff back then because vendors were kind of shutting down production. It was a tough time. It’s funny I don’t really—I always kind of forget how tough it was since it was two years ago. But looking back now I’m thinking, Wow, it was a rough one.

DELLINGER: Right. When local and state governments began the lockdowns and the shelter-in-place orders, how did hearing these words make you feel?

STONE: I had conflicting feelings to be [00:50:00] honest. I think what really hurt me to see was local businesses going under and losing their businesses. That was tough. I almost wish there was a way they could’ve taken health precautions and also being able to stay in business because that’s their livelihood. And losing your job because of that can have some pretty huge impacts on your mental health and on your emotional health, so that was really tough. I understood it from a public health standpoint, but I really hated seeing people losing their jobs too. So I just wondered if there was any kind of balance or compromise that we could’ve made.
I was also—I had moments of fear too because you started hearing a lot of rumors going out about [00:51:00] this idea of people not being able to leave their home at all. So, you start kind of panicking in your head and you think, Well, what if I need supplies? What if I need medicine or food? So I started thinking, I may have to somehow find a way to sneak out if that’s the case. That obviously never happened. We were always able to leave. But when you start hearing those rumors, you start kind of tapping into some survival instinct in your head and you think, How do I feed my family here? Because I don’t have a bunch of MREs or I don’t have a pantry full of food that I’ve been holding on to for a while, so what do I do?
So, I had some pretty conflicting feelings, I think, about the lockdown. It made sense for large gatherings like football games or concerts. That kind of [00:52:00] made sense. But as far as businesses go, that was tough to see. And I kind of wish there was a little bit of a compromise there to some degree.

DELLINGER: Just for confirmation, were you able to—did you shelter in place at home for any duration or were you in the office every day just like normal throughout the pandemic?

STONE: So, I was about half time in the office. I’d have to go back and remember. I think for the most part I stayed in the office. I had my own office, so it wasn’t a big deal. I wasn’t sharing a space with somebody, so the only time I’d see somebody would be in the hallway occasionally. But I would spend some time at home too teleworking [00:53:00] as well. Especially if I was exposed to somebody, then I didn’t leave my house. And back then, I think the early recommendations if you were exposed were close to fourteen days maybe. It was a while you had to say if you were exposed. So, if that happened then obviously I never left my house and I just teleworked from home. If I needed something from the office I’d have to have a coworker drop it off at my front door. So you’d have to get kind of creative in that way and lean on your coworkers to help you if you needed something from the office.

DELLINGER: Was it difficult for you and your wife to be able to arrange a schedule because your daughter would’ve been at home and Amy, your wife, working for TANF? What was her situation with her office?

STONE: I think they were also on a similar rotation, if memory serves me right. I think they—[00:54:00] I can’t remember if she worked full time from home or if she was also on a rotation. I can’t really remember to be honest. I don’t remember it being hard as far as having coverage here at the house. Luckily both our departments that we work for are pretty flexible about those kinds of things. And I think the tribe for the most part overall was pretty flexible about—because they understand if you have kids and they have to do school from home, yeah, you’ve got to have somebody there. So, we didn’t really run into any issues honestly during that time. I’d say the biggest issue was just learning how to teach our second-grader how to do this new math that they’re doing and all those kind of things. That was probably the biggest challenge from that standpoint.

DELLINGER: [00:55:00] During the first year of the pandemic and while scientists and the medical profession were trying to figure out how to combat COVID-19, what were your personal safety measures to stay safe from the virus both at home and when you left the house?

STONE: I carried a bunch of hand sanitizer with me. I always had my mask with me. I maintained a healthy distance from people as much as I could. I was constantly just monitoring my symptoms, checking my temp. I would do the grocery pick-up from Walmart. Or if I wanted to order, let’s say, something from GameStop or Best Buy or whatever, they’d have curbside pick-up so I’d arrange that. So, yeah, especially if I was indoor.
I feel like if I was outdoor helping a friend out with something—[00:56:00] I think I’d still mask up then too now that I’m thinking about it. But with outdoors there was a little more relaxation. Because I remember there was also around the pandemic, CDC would say if you’re outside maybe you don’t need a mask, maybe you do. And that kind of would flip-flop depending on your environment. But, yeah, those are some of the things I did. And I didn’t leave my house that much unless I needed to.

DELLINGER: Mr. Stone, will you please share what is your knowledge and understanding about the COVID-19 virus, especially its effect on the human body if contracted?

STONE: [00:57:00] From what I know about COVID, I know that it affects everyone differently. I know that it really affects the upper respiratory area, lungs mostly. I know that it has very similar symptoms to the flu. Although, there’s also that taste and smell component that is also impacted as one of the symptoms of COVID as well. And I know it’s highly transmissible. A lot of people were able to catch it pretty easily because of that transmissibility.

DELLINGER: Have you or any [00:58:00] family or friends become infected with COVID-19?

STONE: Yes. Early this year actually in January we got COVID. So, two years after, I’d say, the initial outbreak of COVID-19 our family got it. My wife’s symptoms were pretty intense. She had it pretty tough, body aches and fatigue, sinus pressure, all those things. My daughter had it and was asymptomatic. She had zero symptoms, never broke a fever or anything. I had it, and I had fatigue and sinus pressure. All things considered, not too bad I would say. But that was our experience when we got it.

DELLINGER: Now, are you vaccinated [00:59:00] against the COVID-19 virus?

STONE: Yes.

DELLINGER: And why was it important for you to be vaccinated?

STONE: Well, I really was listening to the science behind it. And at first I had some hesitancy about the vaccine, which I feel like a lot of people did at first and still do today. I understand. But for me, I felt like if it was a way for me to minimize my effects of getting it, becoming infected, and then passing that on to somebody else. I felt like in that moment getting the vaccine just seemed like the right thing to do for me. I felt like I was [01:00:00] sort of participating in the way of ending COVID-19, or at least slowing down the curve or slowing down the rates. For me, that was probably one of the biggest reasons that I got it.
And especially after my first shot—because the initial ones was a two-parter, at least for the one that I got. After getting those two vaccines, they would monitor you afterwards and that was comforting to know that they were monitoring you to make sure you didn’t have any adverse effects to the vaccine. And after that I—I don’t know. It gave me a sense of comfort to a certain degree. Kind of like when I get the flu shot, I get a sense of comfort that it’s going to help me. It’s going to [01:01:00] give me an added layer of protection against the flu. And I know that it’s never a guarantee that I will not get the flu after getting the flu shot, same where I went in to getting the vaccine for COVID in the same way.

DELLINGER: Which vaccine did you receive?

STONE: My first initial one was Moderna, and my boosters have been Pfizer after that.

DELLINGER: Now, did you go through a period of having side effects from the vaccines, any of them?

STONE: I did for my boosters. I had side effects for the day after. I kind of had body aches and chills, broke out in a fever, little dizziness. So, I had that both times. Little sore on the arm but that’s with every [01:02:00] vaccine you get it seems. So, yeah, those were the two that I had. That next day isn’t the greatest day. It isn’t fun at all. But it lasted one day, and then that following day I usually felt fine.

DELLINGER: What are your thoughts about how Muscogee (Creek) Nation leadership has performed throughout the pandemic?

STONE: I felt that they’ve done a great job. It was really heartwarming to see that they were kind of opening their doors for the vaccine to non-Natives too in the Tulsa area. I remember seeing just this huge amount—because I have a lot of friends that are non-Native on Facebook, and they were thanking the tribe for stepping up and allowing non-Natives and anyone who wanted the vaccine to come through and get vaccinated. [01:03:00] A lot of people were having to get on waiting lists to get the vaccine. I remember people were like, “We want to get vaccinated. We want to help increase our chances of not catching COVID or having minor symptoms as a result of it.” And I remember people were driving from Oklahoma City to Okmulgee or Tulsa to get it, which is wild. I felt it was a great job by the tribe to open up their doors to non-Natives and ensure that everyone has a chance to get the vaccine.
Council Oak having the infusion center there back—I think last year, if I can remember correctly, was when they had the infusions, and probably still do. But having that infusion center was really huge. I know in the hospital here in Okmulgee they turned half of the second floor into a COVID unit so they were able to [01:04:00] do some great work there. But I think overall they did a great job in their response.

DELLINGER: Throughout the pandemic when patients come into your building, how has the Muscogee (Creek) Nation Health Department kept them safe from the virus?

STONE: One of the things that we started doing was we really increased our telehealth practices so we were able to start seeing clients remotely. We still had some clients that preferred to be seen in person or just didn’t have the knowledge of the technology or the access to the technology and just preferred the in-person route. So in those cases, we made sure that we followed all the CDC guidelines and making sure that we wore masks and we asked our [01:05:00] clients to wear masks as well. We did temperature checks for our clients just to make sure they didn’t have any kind of fever, didn’t have any symptoms, things like that. So from a behavioral health standpoint, those are some of the things that the Department of Health really, I would say, made a priority in doing so.

DELLINGER: From your perspective as a mental health counselor, beginning in 2020, what effect has COVID-19 and the pandemic had on the mental wellbeing of Muscogee people, including elders and our youth?

STONE: You mean since 2020? Yeah. Well, the very short answer is it’s been tough and it’s had a huge impact. In 2020, we saw a lot of elders passing away. [01:06:00] And with elders passing away, you also see a loss of knowledge and culture. I remember my supervisor would tell me when she’d hear about somebody passing away and I would hear the sadness in her voice of so much knowledge that wasn’t shared, so much knowledge that there was still left to share to the younger generation. So, that has an impact on not only the elders who knew that elder that passed, but also all the younger generations underneath. That was really hard.
We know that youth too also had an increase in anxiety and in fear, and adults also had increases in anxiety. Our mental health calls went up quite a bit. [01:07:00] We were staying pretty busy. We were cross-training our staff members on how to talk to people who were dealing with anxiety or depression or stress or just the unknown. So we had to cross-train some people because we didn’t always have a therapist who was available to talk on the phone with somebody because maybe they were seeing a client. So we had to really make sure that we expanded our services in that way.
Just by hearing from coworkers and friends in the community, it was just a really tough time. I think we all kind of had to just come together and lean on each other and continue to share what knowledge that we had. And just continue to [01:08:00]—I don’t want to sound corny, but I guess just appreciate and love each other. Because you start looking around and people are passing away from this virus, and it really puts things into perspective. So, I bet a lot of people put some differences aside and really started to bury the hatchet and start making amends and connecting with each other again. Because it puts life into perspective when you look around and people are passing away from this virus.

DELLINGER: So from your observations and based on what you just shared, do you think that the pandemic has in some ways, I guess, created tighter bonds within family dynamics or gone the other direction? I don’t know. What’s been your observation [01:09:00] with that?

STONE: So my observation, I’ve kind of seen both fortunately and unfortunately. I know during the pandemic, and by pandemic I mean more like the lockdown and shelter-in-place time, I know that we saw an increase in abuse unfortunately both domestic violence or child abuse. And so that’s the unfortunate side of that. But I do think that—and at least I can attest to this in my own personal experience that it brought our family closer together. My daughter and I connected more. Our hobby became building Legos together, watching TV together more, all kinds of things like that.
It forced you to kind of [01:10:00] reexamine your priorities. And you think, Well, I’m not going outside that much anymore. I’m not going off and hanging out with friends as much. I’m staying here. So, let’s figure out some new things that we can do to strengthen those bonds. Unfortunately, at the moment I don’t have any kind of data to showcase the increase in those family bonds right now. But just anecdotally from what I’ve seen and heard, I believe there have been some increased bonds. Now that things are starting to return to normal I hope that those bonds continue. I hope that that’s something that sticks with people and families.

DELLINGER: But again in talking about the flipside of things, in the last three years has the Muscogee (Creek) [01:11:00] Nation Behavioral Healthcare system observed more families and children seeking mental health counseling?

STONE: Yeah. Anecdotally, I would say, from my perspective it seems like there’s been an increase. Yeah, just from some of the calls that I’ve seen and for me personally being called to do more screenings with people who were struggling, I would say, yeah, it’s gone up. It’s gone up quite a bit.

DELLINGER: Can you share maybe what age range of children? Is it predominantly teenagers or is it kind of across the board between young children and teenagers who are needing this extra help?

STONE: You know, I’ve actually kind of seen it across the board. I’ve seen [01:12:00] I’d say anywhere from young kiddos around seven or eight to teenagers to young adults to middle-aged adults. That’s kind of the range that I think I’ve seen it in the most. I haven’t seen it from my observation too much in sort of the older or elder population. But I would say sort of your forty or fifty and below I’ve kind of seen that increase there.

DELLINGER: And then has this been the trend state and countrywide?

STONE: I would have to look at data because I haven’t really seen anxiety data here recently to go off of. If I had to guess I would say, yeah, it probably falls pretty in line with the [01:13:00] data. Again, I apologize. I haven’t really seen any newer data in terms of comparing and contrasting our rates with the United States’ rates. I know that United States’ has gone up over the years in anxiety and depression. But as far as comparing it to ours, if I had to guess I would say it probably correlates pretty well.

DELLINGER: Now Mr. Stone, have you spent time working directly with Muscogee youth throughout the pandemic?

STONE: I have. I worked with a school district. They had a tragic loss at their school so I spent some time working in that school, and this was during the pandemic. [01:14:00] So, I worked with that school and another school too actually during the pandemic that had another tragic loss. Because that’s another part of my role is with these relationships that I build with these schools. If there’s any kind of tragedy that happens I make myself available to go to the school and offer grief support for the students, the teachers, and just the community in general. So during that time I was working a lot with youth after those moments.
And also too I was going to some schools. Some schools would have me come in and do some substance abuse trainings as well. And any time I do a substance abuse training, I really want to make sure that we kind of get to the root of why people use substances. And one of the biggest roots that we know about is [01:15:00] because of some sort of mental health issue that’s going on, whether it be stress, anxiety, sometimes it’s boredom or trying to fit in or be cool. But I really want to make sure that we hammer in on some of those mental health issues because I knew that those were probably going up. Especially after that long period of time of doing schoolwork from home and then coming back, and transitioning back into school and then closing the school. If there was an outbreak of COVID at the school, the school would close down and then they’d come back for a week, close down again. So it was just kind of this back and forth, so a lot of students in 2021 were really out of the rhythm because of the constant closing and reopening. So I’d work a lot with students during those trainings that I did.
And I also worked with some youth whenever we did our cultural classes. We hosted some virtual cultural classes where we did basket weaving, beading, moccasin making classes. [01:16:00] So, I’d get to interact with students via Zoom. But I got the sense that the youth were pretty over Zoom in 2021, and I don’t blame them. I totally get it.

DELLINGER: In working with these youth, can you share what have been their thoughts about the pandemic and maybe how the pandemic has been handled by the adults in their life? Is there anything specific that you can share in regard to that?

STONE: To be honest, I can’t really recall youth sort of expressing their feelings and concerns about the way adults have handled [01:17:00] it. I guess I never really thought to ask that question and it never really came up. One of the things that I’ve found as far as youth and the pandemic, I’ve found that a lot of youth weren’t necessarily worried about the virus itself because they felt like they would be fine from a health standpoint. But I did start seeing a lot of youth who were a lot more open to talking about their anxiety. And it wasn’t always pandemic related. It would just really be other anxieties that they had in life. So, I don’t know if that increase in students feeling more comfortable talking about mental health was because the pandemic served as a catalyst for people to start opening up about it, [01:18:00] or if it’s this younger generation is just more open and normalizing mental health, or if it’s a mixture of both. I don’t really know. I think about that a lot though and I’m curious to know what the answer is.
But I will say that this younger generation, Gen Z’s if you will, are really open to talking about mental health and normalizing it, a lot more than my generation was at the time. When I was their age we didn’t talk about this kind of stuff. You kept it to yourself. And I know older generations than me weren’t talking about it either. So, that’s sort of the vibe that I’ve seen from a lot of the youth here is they’re talking about their mental health, but it wasn’t always pandemic related.

DELLINGER: Yeah, thanks for [01:19:00] sharing that. That is a very interesting observation. Will you please share what mental health treatment options are available for Muscogee people, including children and families?

STONE: Absolutely. So, if you’re Native you can always contact Muscogee Nation Behavioral Health services. Our number is (918)-758-1910. We do what’s called outpatient therapy where you come in for an hour, whether it’s one hour a week or one hour every two weeks or an hour a month. So we do outpatient therapy where you talk to a counselor, and they kind of help you figure things out and help you find some ways to manage whatever it is you’ve got going on.
[01:20:00] There’s the new suicide hotline number, which is 988. You can call or text that new number. And there’s also the crisis text line which is for any kind of crisis that you may be experiencing. It doesn’t have to be suicide necessarily. If you’re feeling depressed or down or stressed about something or anxious about something, you can text the word “Creek”, that’s C-r-e-e-k, to 741-741. And within a couple minutes you can be connected with a crisis counselor to talk about whatever it is that you’ve got going on. That crisis text line isn’t through Muscogee Nation. We just have a contract with the national crisis text line. So, we don’t get the text and we’re not texting people back. We are able to get the data to kind of see what people are texting about and to see if there are any trends that we’re finding with the text lines. But that’s a service that’s open to [01:21:00] Natives and non-Natives alike. So specifically for Native families and youth those are probably the biggest ones there I would say.

DELLINGER: Thank you so much for sharing that. Now, how is the increase in mental health issues and patients affecting mental health care workers themselves? How are these folks coping at this point, or how have they coped throughout the pandemic?

STONE: So, one of the things you learn pretty early on before you get into this field is you find out ways to practice self-care. You have to have that balance. You learn very early on in your mental health professional career that you have to find ways to [01:22:00] separate it. But it was a little bit harder, a lot harder to do that when you have your own mental health issues that are going on. Because at the end of the day, counselors are also human who also have mental health issues as well. So, it was tough.
I can’t really think of specifics of what some of our counselors were doing because I’m separated from our counselors. They’re in a whole other building than I am, except now we’re all under one roof. But at the time we were kind of separated. So, I wasn’t really sure what they were doing. I know for me, what I had to do was I had to find ways to work out. For me, I started running more. Running was something I could go outside and do. It was safer, I felt, than being inside a building. So I started running more. That was kind of my thing. [01:23:00] I became a runner. I ran a 5K every month. I ran a half marathon. I just really got into it. It really helped me. I started counseling myself actually in 2021. I hit a wall. And I had a lot of things that were built up that I thought I could handle on my own, and I couldn’t. So I started counseling and still talk to my counselor once a month to this day. It’s really helped me.
So, it was challenging. It was challenging for everyone. I don’t know a single person who feels like they went through the whole pandemic unscathed. It was tough. But I think on the mental health side, really had to [01:24:00] find ways to decompress. And I think working from home helps in that way too a little bit because you’re in your safe space. If you have a moment to kill, you’re in the comfort of your own home. So that’s your safe space and it feels safe. I think that helped a lot for people. But, I mean, it was tough. It’s tough whenever your calls increase and you’re carrying that pain and suffering with other people at a much greater rate.

DELLINGER: What are your thoughts about life moving forward for yourself knowing that [01:25:00] seemingly COVID isn’t going away any time soon or really possibly ever? Do you ever think about that?

STONE: Yeah. I feel like I’ve come to the point where I feel like COVID’s probably going to be here forever. It feels like an endemic. Again, I can’t stress this enough. I’m not an expert in viruses. But just from what I’ve gathered, it feels like it’s probably going to be here for a long, long time. And with that, it seems like we’re kind of at a point now where you can continue to get the vaccine or not. It’s your choice. You can wear a mask. Especially if you feel like you’re a little under the weather, it’s probably not a bad idea. [01:26:00] People in other countries wear masks all the time when they’re feeling a little under the weather or they don’t want to catch anything. That’s pretty normal. And you still see masks from time to time when you go out.
I’ll say this. It feels very good to be able to have gatherings again. And you always, I guess, want to be mindful of yourself and how you feel physically. If I feel a little sick maybe I don’t go out somewhere. Or if I feel like it’s something that could potentially be COVID, make sure I stay inside. But it feels great to be able to go to concerts again and talk to people and meet people and see your grandparents again now that we have the vaccine. I would say [01:27:00] it does feel normal again more than I thought it would to be honest. I didn’t think I would be able to go to a concert again for a period of time. I thought, I’m going to be watching virtual concerts on my phone for the rest of my life and that’s a bummer. But we’ve gotten to a point where it seems like the ball is kind of in your court on whether if you want to get the vaccine and feel a little safer going out or not, kind of the same way with the flu shot. So, that’s kind of where it feels like we’re at.
I haven’t kept up with COVID rates here recently. I suspect when it gets colder we’ll probably see them go back up. But I don’t really hear about COVID a lot more. And I know people are still getting COVID obviously, but I don’t hear about these large spikes in COVID cases like we did with, let’s say, Omicron, which I think [01:28:00] was probably the highest spike, the highest rates of COVID we’d ever seen was late last year, early this year. That’s when I got it. So, I guess my overall feelings are I feel hopeful because I’m starting to see us return to normal, and this normal doesn’t feel like a new sense of normal. It feels kind of like it was before the pandemic. Unfortunately, we do have this virus that’s still here. But I think we just have to be mindful and do our best to prevent spreading it to people.

DELLINGER: Okay, thank you for that. Well, we’re down to our last couple of questions. For future generations of indigenous peoples who may find themselves dealing with a health and economic crisis such as the COVID-19 pandemic and its lingering impacts, [01:29:00] what words of advice do you have for them about surviving and living with such a catastrophic event?

STONE: I would encourage future generations to learn about their history and their ancestors and appreciate the sense of resiliency that they had which allows us to be here today. And that’s something that I never really considered until I started working at the tribe and started learning more about my culture. That I have the blood of somebody who was forcefully removed from their homeland is in my blood today. And sometimes I forget about how huge that feels. That my ancestors went through so much, and that [01:30:00] blood is in me today. And you get that sense of resiliency from that and that appreciation of how you’re here today. But my advice would be to really look back and learn and appreciate where our ancestors came from and what they had to endure that brought us here today.
And more of my advice too would be to find ways to take care of yourself. And know that it’s okay and it’s very normal to have those fears, to have those anxieties and those questions of, What does all this mean? Will things get better? I’m anxious about the future. All those different feelings that you have, those are a hundred percent normal. [01:31:00] It’s okay to sit with those feelings for a while. But don’t let it fully consume you because things do get better. And there were times in 2020 when I didn’t know if things were going to get better. And I had a lot of moments where I thought, I don’t know what’s going to happen. Will we return to normal? Will I catch COVID and pass away from it? I don’t know. So, it’s okay to have that unknown. But sit with it, notice it, and keep moving forward.
And some more advice would be to surround yourself with positive people who see your journey and will help you further your journey [01:32:00] and help you become a better person the next day than you were today. That’s probably some of the advice I’d give the younger—if I was talking to a younger version of myself that’s probably some of the words that I would say to them. Or just a Native youth in general, those are some of the things I think I would say.

DELLINGER: Wow, powerful words and advice for sure. Thank you so much for that. So in closing, Mr. Stone, is there anything else that you want to say or share about the COVID-19 pandemic and your experiences with the pandemic?

STONE: Yeah. I would just say that I’m very glad that we came to a point in the pandemic where we’re able to see each other again. Because I think [01:33:00] us as humans, and specifically Natives, have to have some sort of connection with our people. And with that we were able to see laughter again, and laughter is such a great medicine. I’m very glad we got back to that point.
I would also say to make sure you’re checking in with yourself. And if you’re feeling like things are off in you, if you’re having mental health issues or if you’re feeling overwhelmed or anxious, practice some kind of self-care. Whether it’s exercising, getting outside and gardening, going for bike rides, doing something physical, talking to positive people in your life that care about you and want to see you grow and succeed. And don’t be afraid to ask for help. I know it can be hard reaching out to people, but [01:34:00] there is somebody in your life who is there to help you and wants to give you everything that they can. So, don’t be afraid to reach out to them. Help is available. And we are going to get through this as we have been for the past two years. We’re going to keep moving forward, and I’m optimistic about that.

DELLINGER: Fantastic. Mvto and wado.

STONE: Of course, thank you.

DELLINGER: Yes, thank you so much. This has been great. Thank you for taking the time to do this interview with me. And you continue to take care and stay safe.

STONE: Yeah, you too. I appreciate it again, Midge, for the opportunity. It’s been really fun to talk about these kinds of things with you. It got me really thinking about how far we’ve come in the past two years. I had to really dig back into my memory bank to think about some of those things and think, Gosh, it was really tough. And [01:35:00] it’s not over, but it’s much better than it was two years ago I think.

DELLINGER: Yes, absolutely.

STONE: All right. Well, enjoy the rest of your weekend and stay safe from these storms that are now approaching me. So, be safe.

DELLINGER: Okay.

STONE: All right.

END OF INTERVIEW